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Topic Title: Building Codes in the Panhandle
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Created On: 10/14/2018 08:38 PM
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 10/14/2018 08:38 PM
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paddleout

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After looking at what happened in Mexico Beach, and seeing so many homes simply disappear- I have to wonder about what led to so much damage.

Are the building codes less stringent there than they are in Brevard?

Could it be the that low lying area and all the surge helped destroy the homes?

Then I saw this new article in the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2018/10...xico-beach-house.html


"After Hurricane Andrew, a Category 5 beast, ravaged Miami-Dade County in 1992, new construction in the southern portion of the state was required to withstand 175-mile-an-hour winds. In the coastal Panhandle counties affected by Michael, the requirement is lower, for 120 to 150 miles an hour, and the rules for certain kinds of reinforcement have applied to houses built more than a mile from shore only since 2007. Many of the residences and businesses rubbed out by Michael in Mexico Beach were far older; "



I can't remember for sure- are we here in Brevard subject to those Miami post-Andrew building codes?

My house was built in 2002- I'm not sure the wind rating, but I think I remember "Miami Dade building code"

Just hate to see that level of damage... but it did seem like those homes came apart rather easily..

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 10/14/2018 10:21 PM
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ww

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Florida building codes get weaker as you go north. Brevard does not have Miami-Dade standards. The Apalachicola to Panama City region was even weaker. That beach house that was more or less undamaged in Mexico Beach exceeded all standards, was architect-designed, and was carefully sealed as renters left before Michael.
 10/15/2018 04:33 AM
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palerider

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Impact doors and windows MD code.Pour cells associated with these points while
adding 5 bar.
Strap down trusses using nails and tap cons no screws.
Northern tool flood barrier prevention kit. The ones you fill up with water not
the ones that self rise.

Instance= hocus. Pocus thin air!!!

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Edited: 10/17/2018 at 02:23 PM by palerider
 10/15/2018 05:16 AM
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miker

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Mexico Beach is an example of what would happen to South Patrick and Cocoa beach given a storm with the same intensity making landfall with the eye just south so the areas stayed in worst of the eyewall and surge for duration. All the old home within a few blocks of the beach would be swept off their foundations.

Well maybe not South Patrick as bad, but Cocoa Beach for sure.

Edited: 10/15/2018 at 05:59 AM by miker
 10/15/2018 06:05 AM
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dingpatch

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A lot of the houses in South Cocoa Beach (like where Sean O lives) are old Navy housing from WW2. They would be toast. Regardless of "code", the houses in South Patrick and Sea Park are built like the Brick S House you've heard about. It is too expensive now-a-days to build like that!

Oh and, just as with areas after Katrina, the owners in Mexico Beach will now have to prove that their homes were destroyed by "wind", and not "water".

Edited: 10/15/2018 at 06:06 AM by dingpatch
 10/15/2018 06:16 AM
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miker

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Yeah that is a tough one, especially considering that in this case just as many close to the beach were destroyed by water as the wind.
 10/15/2018 06:18 AM
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dingpatch

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 10/15/2018 06:21 AM
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daner

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Much of the damage I saw looked like wood frame homes. Probably older too. Apparently a relatively poor area. Hence, not able to withstand hurricane force winds let alone a cat 4-5.

I think concrete block construction with hurricane regulation roofing would have prevented homes from "disappearing." Still would have had damage but not as catastrophic.



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 10/15/2018 10:23 AM
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moody

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When they were replacing our roof after Irma, we chose to bring it up to Miami Dade code (we had to pay extra for that). Plus we put in impact windows (a few people on here have been subject to my complaints about how our house was wrecked in Irma). I still don't think it would have survived the Panhandle storm (although we're inland a few miles so would have escaped the surge). This is the new normal, and I don't love it.

But the thing is that today it doesn't TAKE a lot of damage to do you in financially. It's tempting to think that if you're insured you'll be ok. I lost my roof in Jeanne and Frances when I lived beachside. The insurance covered it, and when I had issues with them the state comptroller and insurance commissioner helped me deal with it. This time? We had NO help from the state or FEMA. We had to hire a public adjuster, who took 20%, in addition to the higher hurricane deductible. So it cost a fortune to make the house right, and we're out 30% of the repair costs off the top.

How can poor people survive that year after year? I've had two bad hits in 15 years. And I can manage. But a lot of people couldn't. And I can't forever.

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[Feminism is] a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson

Edited: 10/15/2018 at 10:30 AM by moody
 10/15/2018 11:18 AM
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426Blue

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For a single family residence without overly complex insurance issues and damages, I would not bother with a public adjuster (what a misnomer in that name), who like you said, takes a huge commission off of the top of what the insurer is paying. Instead, get a written denial from the insurer clearly denying your realistic claim, take it to an attorney, and sue. Very favorable attorney's fees provisions in the statute for wrongful denials, which will not apply until you get the denial and sue. Some attorney's may even do it on contingency for a clear cut case. Public adjuster can't file suit for you & insurers know that, and in fact, the PA will tell you you need to hire an attorney, when it becomes apparent that the insurer doesn't care what the PA says, or even gives them the time of day. Suddenly you're paying the PA their astronomical commission for doing even less, when the lawsuit is really what got the result. I hate to generalize, and there seems to be a few fair ones, but to me, the majority of the PAs act like used car dealers selling lemons, waiting to prey on the next sucker with an insurer that is less than cooperative. Or..if you absolutely can't deal with the insurer on your own and are opposed to suing them - at least counter the PAs ridiculous commission with something lower.
 10/15/2018 12:37 PM
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crankit

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An 8 foot tidal surge is stronger than a cat-5, looks the same as Gulfport and Biloxi after Camille and katrina.

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 10/15/2018 01:58 PM
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hodad66

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Originally posted by: hodad66

Originally posted by: moody



When they were replacing our roof after Irma, we chose to bring it up to Miami Dade code (we had to pay extra for that). Plus we put in impact windows (a few people on here have been subject to my complaints about how our house was wrecked in Irma). I still don't think it would have survived the Panhandle storm (although we're inland a few miles so would have escaped the surge). This is the new normal, and I don't love it.


But the thing is that today it doesn't TAKE a lot of damage to do you in financially. It's tempting to think that if you're insured you'll be ok. I lost my roof in Jeanne and Frances when I lived beachside. The insurance covered it, and when I had issues with them the state comptroller and insurance commissioner helped me deal with it. This time? We had NO help from the state or FEMA. We had to hire a public adjuster, who took 20%, in addition to the higher hurricane deductible. So it cost a fortune to make the house right, and we're out 30% of the repair costs off the top.

How can poor people survive that year after year? I've had two bad hits in 15 years. And I can manage. But a lot of people couldn't. And I can't forever.


Maybe they should stop voting for a party that protects the insurance companies
instead of the people!!

-------------------------


Replace turf grass with native plants that don't need irrigation
and synthetic fertilizers or chemicals that can go into our
waterways and ocean
 10/16/2018 12:20 PM
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moody

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We wouldn't have gotten a penny without a public adjuster. Our insurance company delayed us and delayed us and finally sent us to arbitration and FORCED us to hire either an attorney or a public adjuster. Our private attorney (who we trust but who doesn't handle this type of claim) recommended the PA (we cut a deal with ours so he took less than the going rate, but most of the PA's and lawyers I talked to after wanted 30%). If we'd sued, it would have been even longer and we were in a situation where we needed to settle sooner because we only could get a rental for 6 months (we have 5 dogs and 3 cats, so finding a rental at all was something of a miracle - we lived on the porch for 6 weeks before someone we knew who was selling their house agreed to rent to us, but he wanted to get his house sold, and we knew we wouldn't find that situation again, so it was either camp again or get the house done).

It was also expensive to pay for both the rental and the repairs out of pocket before the insurance company settled (our adjuster was actually brilliant at getting them to cover some stuff that they were dragging about with our possessions, so that made up for a lot of his fees) but we applied through FEMA for an SBA bridge loan, and that helped a lot. Our horror story could fill several novels, but I will tell you that I will never go through it again - I will sell the house and move if I have to. Two of our neighbors walked away from their houses, and the bank is now selling them at a loss.

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[Feminism is] a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson
 10/16/2018 12:23 PM
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moody

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Originally posted by: hodad66

Originally posted by: hodad66



Originally posted by: moody



Maybe they should stop voting for a party that protects the insurance companies

instead of the people!!


And this was kind of the point I was making. We lost a lot of the consumer protections that made things a bit easier in Jeanne and Frances. I understood how at the mercy of the insurance company you really are during this storm. That said, the people at the SBA were really helpful, and did do their best to get us funds to help us rebuild. That is a great program, and can provide financial stability that covers the deductible at a low interest rate. THIS is the kind of help that everyone should get behind.

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[Feminism is] a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson
 10/16/2018 12:58 PM
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dingpatch

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But, it seems that the whole concept, and/or purpose, of insurance gets lost on many people. Insurance IS NOT a right. It is a contract in which you agree to pay for certain "coverage", and the insurance company agrees to provide that coverage when/if certain conditions are met. If you can't pay or otherwise negotiate a proper "deal", no insurance.

On the other hand, it is also pretty easy to say that the insurance companies always try to "cheat" your claim. Perhaps. But, in many cases, the "insured" never fully understood the terms and conditions when they signed the contract and, as such, assume that they are fully covered for everything every time.
 10/16/2018 03:27 PM
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moody

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Our lawyer was of the opinion that we fully understood the terms and coverage of our insurance, and in the end, our insurance company DID pay what they were legally obligated to cover. They just stalled and dragged their feet, as they did to many other people in this situation, and I don't feel morally superior because we had the financial resources to stand until we wore them down. That they did this at all is reprehensible. And this is becoming a pattern with these companies (I have talked to dozens of people that have had this experience; it's not an isolated incident, and I don't think that ALL of these people are too stupid to understand what they are paying for), and I think it's something people should become aware of.

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[Feminism is] a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson
 10/16/2018 09:53 PM
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equipeola

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Moody- Thanks for sharing your story. Good insight for us who've not yet had the need to war with our insurers. It does seem as you say, to have become a common point of topic and contention now a days, and I guess being it's such a personal impacting thing, we just don't readily hear variations of what people go through in this process. Thinking how many households in even the past half dozen years or so ie: in the east south east that run the gamut of untold experiences resulting from these storms' damages, It would be helpful to any/all, knowing the listed 'names' of these insurers who manage by delay tactics, and those too who have given rapid expected results. I'd hate to know folks are hesitant to share negative experience's of so and so company for fear of slander reprisal, but I don't know.

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 10/17/2018 05:19 AM
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Central Floridave

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100mph is still my cut off to evacuate or not. Rode out Irma and Matthew and that was around or near 100. It sucked being home, but i have a post Andrew house and 200 year old oaks protecting the house. I'm on a high ridge in Merritt Island also. With that said, if you live beachside and in an older home, you may want to rethink evacuating or not. Michael went from a thunderstorm to Cat 4 almost cat 5 in 3 days. Wake up call! Be prepared. I would have evacuated for Michael for sure.

Also, please leave politics out of the surfing forum thanks.
 10/17/2018 05:28 AM
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miker

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There was one house left standing beach front in a spot where all the dude's neighbors' homes had nothing but slabs left. His entire home was poured concrete construction, top of the line impact glass, and a roof engineered to greatly surpass standards. Survived the wind AND the storm surge completely intact.
 10/17/2018 06:13 AM
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Cole

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I have a ranch block house that was built in the 50's with a strapped tongue and groove roof; it's basically a bunker....but, the river is at the end of my road and the ocean four blocks away. I evacuate for anything above a tropical storm. Yes, I might be overly cautious, but Michael went from a low 2 to a killer 4.9 in 24 hours. Increased/extended heating is going to make this the new norm, so to me, it's not worth the risk.
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