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Topic Title: Meet ALICE
Topic Summary: Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed
Created On: 02/11/2019 03:49 PM
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 02/11/2019 03:49 PM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 20887
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

A full 45% of Floridians are working but don't get paid much, don't own much, and struggle to meet their basic needs. Just in case you think socialism is just a fad, these are the future revolutionaries.

M4A, higher minimum wages, and a jobs guaranty would make a manifest difference for these people. Call it socialism or call it a New Deal, but if we continue down this extreme capitalist road, those people will come for you in due time.

Ignore them at your own risk.

http://www.unitedforalice.org

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A fascist government doesn’t come out and say they’re fascist, they just try to make anti-fascism illegal.
 02/11/2019 03:58 PM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 43062
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

Yo SHITFORBRAINS!

Why haven't you learned yet what forcing a much higher minimum wage does to the local economy...and to the individual it's supposd to help!?!?

Hasn't CALIFORNIA taught you anything?????

FOOL!

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Edited: 02/11/2019 at 03:59 PM by Fish Killer
 02/11/2019 04:01 PM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 43062
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

...are you going to be PRO paying people TAXPAYER MONIES even if they just don't want to work....ALSO?!?!

MORON!

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 02/11/2019 04:12 PM
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fishkller

Posts: 4331
Joined Forum: 11/13/2016


Uh oh- the 3rd Grader just entered the thread

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 02/11/2019 04:18 PM
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tpapablo

Posts: 30379
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

I remain unconvinced. Sure, winning the lottery would make a "a manifest difference" in my life. Just because something might make a difference in your life doesn't make you entitled to it. Our country wasn't founded on that kind of philosophy and didn't become what it has become on it. The vast majority of us have struggled financially at times and overcame it. These people can do the same. In the long run, it will do them good. It did for me. Conversely, being given stuff does not usually help a person out in the long run. If it did, we wouldn't have generations of families on welfare. They'd all be billionaires and all of the shlubs who overcame adversity by their own devices would be on welfare. A question to you progs with children. Do you give them everything they claim to need? Or do you sometimes tell them to get a job, save up or (since we are talking about progs) sell drugs like their father did and buy it themselves? If so, why do you do that?

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 02/11/2019 04:36 PM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 20887
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You're very concerned about the merit of these working poor. Do you ever consider the merit of the capitalist who has the power to keep the wealth created by workers? How much is too much? 10 million? 100 million?

Don't you see that when people have that level of wealth, they can afford to game the system. They buy politicians, they shape policy favorable to them, they prevent competitors from entering the market. They use the threat of unemployment and loss of healthcare to prevent workers from organizing or bargaining collectively.

There's no way that 0.01% of the population is so smart, so hard working, that they should control 98% of the wealth.

Something must change, because the trend is toward greater and greater concentration of wealth. These ALICE people ARE working, and it's not getting them anywhere.
That should concern everyone.

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A fascist government doesn’t come out and say they’re fascist, they just try to make anti-fascism illegal.
 02/11/2019 06:13 PM
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scombrid

Posts: 14497
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

They just need to inherit mommy's property that she got from step dad, then buy out their druggie brother for pennies, sell the property, use the proceeds to buy rental property, and then retire. (after they deal the domestic disputes from that stem from their druggie brother finding out that he got screwed). That way they won't be assett poor any more and will have lots of time on their hands.

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 02/11/2019 06:19 PM
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tpapablo

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Originally posted by: RustyTruck You're very concerned about the merit of these working poor. Do you ever consider the merit of the capitalist who has the power to keep the wealth created by workers? How much is too much? 10 million? 100 million? Don't you see that when people have that level of wealth, they can afford to game the system. They buy politicians, they shape policy favorable to them, they prevent competitors from entering the market. They use the threat of unemployment and loss of healthcare to prevent workers from organizing or bargaining collectively. There's no way that 0.01% of the population is so smart, so hard working, that they should control 98% of the wealth. Something must change, because the trend is toward greater and greater concentration of wealth. These ALICE people ARE working, and it's not getting them anywhere. That should concern everyone.
Yes, I think about that. At the end of the day, however, I believe that we should never take something away from someone in this country because they have done too well. Who decides what that limit is? One day it might be that $10 billion is too much and the next day it might be $100,000. Moreover, these guys like Bezos, Gates and Zuckerberg have made life good for many people. And, keep in mind, that they made almost all of their money from willing buyers of their companies' stock (most of who aren't the poor). It is not like they got their fortunes by robbing the poor or forcing their businesses' customers to buy their products. And, sure, the possibility of buying off politicians is a concern. Clearly it does happen. But, at the end of the day, a billionaire only gets one vote. And there are more of us than of them. Look at Steyer, for example. That guy has spend 100's of millions and has lost on about everything he has advocated. The Kochs spent millions and we still ended up with Obama. We're going to periodically revolt when the politicians ignore us. See, e.g., Mr Trump. I am sure that those ALICE folks work hard. I worked hard too and couldn't get ahead until my mid thirties. It ain't easy, but it is doable in this country. Always has been. I don't see any benefit to changing the system that brought all of this to us. In other words, don't monkey up the system that created more wealth for its citizens than any other system in the history of the world.

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 02/12/2019 04:16 AM
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RiddleMe

Posts: 2758
Joined Forum: 07/21/2011

income gap, wealth distribution, and issues with working poor need to be solved. trickle down doesnt work for same reason raising minimum wage by itself doesnt, greed and legal responsibility to shareholders, among other things. what is a realistic solution? any solution has to prevent gross inflation for the sake of people that have spent their entire lives working/saving for retirement and those retired on fixed incomes, otherwise you are essentially stealing earned money from them too and wrongly. sure some people will be protected some from it, others not so much. a real fix will require cooperation from people/entities currently unwilling to cooperate, safeguards to protect lower and middle class from inflation, and regulation on a scope never seen before to accomplish that. basically, capitalism would have to be torn down and a hybrid economy erected in its place

Edited: 02/12/2019 at 04:23 AM by RiddleMe
 02/12/2019 04:26 AM
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Cole

Posts: 40357
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

I doubt school cost The Asshole $100,000 and I'm sure The Asshole didn't pay $900 a month rent for a shitty apartment. But hey, if The Asshole did it, everyone else should too.
 02/13/2019 07:24 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 20887
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

Originally posted by: tpapablo

Originally posted by: RustyTruck

You're very concerned about the merit of these working poor. Do you ever consider the merit of the capitalist who has the power to keep the wealth created by workers? How much is too much? 10 million? 100 million?



Don't you see that when people have that level of wealth, they can afford to game the system. They buy politicians, they shape policy favorable to them, they prevent competitors from entering the market. They use the threat of unemployment and loss of healthcare to prevent workers from organizing or bargaining collectively.



There's no way that 0.01% of the population is so smart, so hard working, that they should control 98% of the wealth.



Something must change, because the trend is toward greater and greater concentration of wealth. These ALICE people ARE working, and it's not getting them anywhere.

That should concern everyone.


Yes, I think about that. At the end of the day, however, I believe that we should never take something away from someone in this country because they have done too well. Who decides what that limit is? One day it might be that $10 billion is too much and the next day it might be $100,000. Moreover, these guys like Bezos, Gates and Zuckerberg have made life good for many people. And, keep in mind, that they made almost all of their money from willing buyers of their companies' stock (most of who aren't the poor). It is not like they got their fortunes by robbing the poor or forcing their businesses' customers to buy their products. And, sure, the possibility of buying off politicians is a concern. Clearly it does happen. But, at the end of the day, a billionaire only gets one vote. And there are more of us than of them. Look at Steyer, for example. That guy has spend 100's of millions and has lost on about everything he has advocated. The Kochs spent millions and we still ended up with Obama. We're going to periodically revolt when the politicians ignore us. See, e.g., Mr Trump. I am sure that those ALICE folks work hard. I worked hard too and couldn't get ahead until my mid thirties. It ain't easy, but it is doable in this country. Always has been. I don't see any benefit to changing the system that brought all of this to us. In other words, don't monkey up the system that created more wealth for its citizens than any other system in the history of the world.



A big part of the problem is that we've redefined money as political speech, so while a billionaire gets one vote, they can create a PAC and spend millions on propaganda to influence poorly informed voters and invest in politicians who will enact favorable policy. Bezos makes money by staffing warehouses with people who are paid low non-union wages and are barely allowed to go to the bathroom. The value created by their labor is kept by Bezos; no one becomes a billionaire through fair trade. And the upward redistribution of wealth is a going concern, so without a return to organized labor and higher wages through whatever means, in the end we will be living in a Dickensian dystopia, and barbarism is sure to ensue.


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A fascist government doesn’t come out and say they’re fascist, they just try to make anti-fascism illegal.
 02/13/2019 07:43 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 30379
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

Yeah, Rusty, I understand that and you are right. It is working both ways now, maybe even favoring dems at the moment with the liberal tech billionaires starting to plow money into politics. Yet, I do believe the Steyers of the world have the right to say what they want to say. I believe the answer, however, is for the uninformed to inform themselves. They too have a responsibility. I would guess that you haven't been swayed by Koch money and I certainly haven't been swayed by Soros or Steyer money. We have taken the time to inform ourselves and have, as a result, immunized ourselves from such stuff. Others should do the same.

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I :heart; Putin

 02/13/2019 08:04 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 20887
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

I agree there's an individual responsibility for critical thinking, but given the trend, I see disaster in our future if there's not more equitable distribution of wealth. Unregulated capitalism will lead to slavery.

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A fascist government doesn’t come out and say they’re fascist, they just try to make anti-fascism illegal.
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