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Topic Title: Twitler trying to remove the 14th amendment
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Created On: 08/22/2019 07:21 AM
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 08/22/2019 07:21 AM
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Pagerow

Posts: 5608
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BUt really, isn't that what makes America "America"?

The legal consensus is that birthright citizenship is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. It reads: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States."

Trump again says he is 'very seriously' looking to end birthright citizenship

"The Wall Street Journal editorial board said Trump's "birth citizenship gambit" puts him "on the wrong side of immigration law and politics," and that the meaning of the amendment is clear.

"You cannot end birthright citizenship with an executive order," then-House Speaker Paul Ryan said at the time. "As a conservative, I'm a believer of following the plain text of the Constitution. And I think in this case the 14th Amendment's pretty clear."

Trump also falsely claimed that the United States is the "only country in the world" to follow the practice when, in fact, more than 30 countries grant citizenship to anyone born within their borders."

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GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project
 08/22/2019 07:24 AM
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Greensleeves

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Thank you page! I guess he doesn't care about being re-elected.
 08/22/2019 07:37 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 43826
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

That is a lie. Obviously, Trump is not trying to remove the 14th amendment. He is looking to do something that may implicate one word of the 14th Amendment. Many serious Constitutional scholars believe that provision does not guarantee birth right citizenship. We will only know who is right when it is decided by the Supreme Court. Why do you progs feel it necessary to repeat brazen lies in almost everything you post? My thought on that is that is the only way you could possibly get anyone to come to your side. Anyway, progs are liars by trade, people. Don't believe them and damn sure don't vote for them.

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I :heart; Q
 08/22/2019 07:50 AM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 25062
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One word is all? I thought you alleged conservative types were strict adherents to every actual word. Originalists? So is this removal of the "born" consistent with originalism or conservativism? Is this a radical departure from the way we have always read the constitution and if so, can we change the 2nd amendment as soon as the grifter in chief is gone?

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 08/22/2019 07:50 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33293
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

No need to remove it if you can get a quorum of people who will collectively pretend that it says something different than it says in plain English.

No sweat, the liberals can do the same thing for the 2nd Amendment when they regain power, and there's a much stronger basis for them to interpret that to mean you have to join the State militia to own a gun.
There's nothing well regulated about buying an AR out the trunk of a guy's car in the parking lot, as is considered legal at this moment.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 08/22/2019 07:55 AM
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johnnyboy

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall * (not) be infringed."

*one single word removed.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 08/22/2019 07:57 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 43826
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Originally posted by: johnnyboy One word is all? I thought you alleged conservative types were strict adherents to every actual word. Originalists? So is this removal of the "born" consistent with originalism or conservativism? Is this a radical departure from the way we have always read the constitution and if so, can we change the 2nd amendment as soon as the grifter in chief is gone?
Every word has a context. We certainly believe in looking at the contexts. Progs have changed/ignored the wording of the Constitution. That is how you have gotten most of the wrong rulings that you celebrate, Roe being just one example of many.

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I :heart; Q
 08/22/2019 07:59 AM
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RustyTruck

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Suddenly you cons like judicial activism when you can subvert democracy and pack the court.

-------------------------
Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 08/22/2019 08:11 AM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 25062
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

So changing that one word, and by change we mean remove, would not be a problem for you? Please see the one word removed from the above example and get back to me. This would be another example of a leader that does not understand or respect our laws and sends his lawyers to change things so his rally MAGAts can start focusing on changing the original text of the most sacred document of our country. Let the attack begin. It's starts with a minimization of the change, then a lie about the scope or effect, then a plea to be free to address modern problems without being cuffed to ancient documents and once fox makes their infotainers talk about how we have a solution but it's impossible and shouldn't be, we have the change.

But change can cut both ways. And it always does. Like gerrymandering or filibusters, the parties eventually change and exact their political revenge while the still warm carcass of the deflated beast demands that the new power respect the rules, the law and history of all the same rules, law and history they sodomized when they were the proud powerful bully.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 08/22/2019 08:17 AM
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dingpatch

Posts: 19032
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

The Catch 22 is in regard to the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" portion.

So, the Ambassador to the UN from BFK has a baby in NYC. Citizen? Nope! The child is a citizen of BFK and is not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA. There is Right Wing talk about the "jurisdiction" thingy being applied to illegals.

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Dora Hates You
 08/22/2019 08:54 AM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 25062
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

so the exception is the rule? Diplomats are hardly a fair comparison.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 08/22/2019 10:03 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33293
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If you're in the country illegally, can you not be arrested? I'd say that's being "subject to the jurisdiction".

Diplomats have specific immunity, right?

-------------------------
Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 08/22/2019 02:12 PM
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Cole

Posts: 68175
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

Originally posted by: tpapablo

That is a lie. Obviously, Trump is not trying to remove the 14th amendment. He is looking to do something that may implicate one word of the 14th Amendment. Many serious Constitutional scholars believe that provision does not guarantee birth right citizenship. We will only know who is right when it is decided by the Supreme Court. Why do you progs feel it necessary to repeat brazen lies in almost everything you post? My thought on that is that is the only way you could possibly get anyone to come to your side.

Anyway, progs are liars by trade, people. Don't believe them and damn sure don't vote for them.


You are okay with the Executive Branch changing the Constitution?

Yes or no?



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I was right.
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