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Topic Title: California's Bill 5/AB5 limit on independent contractors
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Created On: 11/12/2019 06:47 AM
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 11/12/2019 06:47 AM
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stokedpanda

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California Assembly Bill 5 or AB 5 is a California law which limits the use of classifying workers as independent contractors rather than employees by companies in the state.

This is pretty ridiculous, and causing major issues in the trucking industry where independent drivers act as contractors to get the benefits of a bigger companies financial support, and brand recognition.

Many drivers are moving out of the state......

My question is why? Just to spite uber and lyft?

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 11/12/2019 07:00 AM
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Greensleeves

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Not to spite uber and lyft. Remember the CA economy is enormous. Companies oftentimes classify positions as independent contractors so they can get out of providing mandated benefits, that hurts CA residents. The truckers should get an exemption which exists under the legislation for many industries.
 11/12/2019 07:05 AM
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tpapablo

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Have you one same bit of legislation come out of California in the last 20 years? They are a model for what other states should avoid.

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 11/12/2019 07:05 AM
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RustyTruck

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There are lots of industries where it's become standard to skirt labor laws by classifying workers as contractors.

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In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/12/2019 07:17 AM
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Greensleeves

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Illinois already went there and many states are headed that way. Again tspank showing abject lazy/dopiness.
 11/12/2019 07:37 AM
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tpapablo

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Illinois? It is headed towards ruin faster than even California.

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 11/12/2019 07:42 AM
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Greensleeves

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"counselor" getting dope! trust that this $hit hole (FL and especially Mims) won't do anything to help employees.

It's going to be enacted in states that care about people and some states won't it ain't that shocking.

Hey did you here that VA kicked the GOP back into the gutter where they belong?
 11/12/2019 07:48 AM
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tpapablo

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Originally posted by: Greensleeves "counselor" getting dope! trust that this $hit hole (FL and especially Mims) won't do anything to help employees. It's going to be enacted in states that care about people and some states won't it ain't that shocking. Hey did you here that VA kicked the GOP back into the gutter where they belong?
Correct, which is why people from CA, NY and Il are fleeing and moving here. They want to live in a non-crazy state.

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 11/12/2019 08:03 AM
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Greensleeves

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tspank's catchphrase for FL: Bring us your tax evaders, your poor, your uneducated, your people that don't have the wherewithal to make it anywhere else.

Is the dope really saying this place is non-crazy?

Good thing: Stand your ground tampa mini mart douche bag going to the pen

Bad thing: Red tide back on east coast

Edited: 11/12/2019 at 09:44 AM by Greensleeves
 11/12/2019 09:09 AM
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stokedpanda

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Originally posted by: RustyTruck

There are lots of industries where it's become standard to skirt labor laws by classifying workers as contractors.


Couldnt people simply chose not to work for those companies vs making it illegal?

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 11/12/2019 09:40 AM
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RustyTruck

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Originally posted by: stokedpanda

Originally posted by: RustyTruck



There are lots of industries where it's become standard to skirt labor laws by classifying workers as contractors.




Couldnt people simply chose not to work for those companies vs making it illegal?


Sure, if they're independently wealthy. The real situation for most workers is that they simply need the money to survive.

If, however, we had a national healthcare system and a federal jobs guaranty then workers would have more power to avoid exploitation in the workplace.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/12/2019 11:05 AM
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stokedpanda

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idk there are TONS of jobs on the market right now, and unless someone lacks the physical or mental ability to learn the skills and perform, its probably because they are lazy or have a criminal record or something.



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 11/12/2019 01:05 PM
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tpapablo

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Obviously, I don't give a damn about Californians - they have brought all of this upon themselves. But does bother me that some of those idiots will move here to get jobs that they can no longer get there and begin ruining this state too.

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 11/12/2019 01:27 PM
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Greensleeves

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They brought it on themselves y'all!



Edited: 11/12/2019 at 01:27 PM by Greensleeves
 11/12/2019 02:35 PM
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fishkller

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Tfish Californitriggered as usual...

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 11/12/2019 07:38 PM
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RegularJoe

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I've worked about half of the last 35 years as an independent contractor, by choice. I like it that way. I get paid when I work, and don't get paid when I don't. I pay my own quarterly estimated taxes, and negotiate my own rates and raises. Boneheaded laws like this hamstring the flexibility of employer/employee relations and make it more difficult for people who want to control their own destiny.
 11/13/2019 04:15 AM
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RustyTruck

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So if the shitty stuff doesn't happen to you personally, it doesn't matter. Got it.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/13/2019 05:30 AM
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RegularJoe

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Shitty stuff does happen. Employers are already bound by federal laws on contractors, including things like time limits, which usually forces a client to let me go after 1-3 years (depending on how they interpret the law) even when they have more work and want to keep me. When you're working as a contractor, you generally negotiate a higher rate that covers things like paying double for Medicare and SS, buying your own insurance, and going unpaid between jobs.

Laws like this are misguided attempts at solving a problem, and they always punish somebody and have unintended consequences for others.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Employers shouldn't be in the business of providing mandated benefits anyways. They can always say a benefit they're paying you is worth more than it really is. They should pay you cash for what you do, and let you buy your own benefits wherever, whenever, and however you want to.
 11/13/2019 05:40 AM
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RustyTruck

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Originally posted by: RegularJoe

Shitty stuff does happen. Employers are already bound by federal laws on contractors, including things like time limits, which usually forces a client to let me go after 1-3 years (depending on how they interpret the law) even when they have more work and want to keep me. When you're working as a contractor, you generally negotiate a higher rate that covers things like paying double for Medicare and SS, buying your own insurance, and going unpaid between jobs.



Laws like this are misguided attempts at solving a problem, and they always punish somebody and have unintended consequences for others.



This is why we can't have nice things.



Employers shouldn't be in the business of providing mandated benefits anyways. They can always say a benefit they're paying you is worth more than it really is. They should pay you cash for what you do, and let you buy your own benefits wherever, whenever, and however you want to.


Are you sure the law would do what you fear it would?

http://leginfo.legislature.ca....?bill_id=201920200AB5

"...The bill would provide that for purposes of the provisions of the Labor Code, the Unemployment Insurance Code, and the wage orders of the Industrial Welfare Commission, a person providing labor or services for remuneration shall be considered an employee rather than an independent contractor unless the hiring entity demonstrates that the person is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, the person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business, and the person is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business...

...exempt occupations would include, among others, licensed insurance agents, certain licensed health care professionals, registered securities broker-dealers or investment advisers, direct sales salespersons, real estate licensees, commercial fishermen, workers providing licensed barber or cosmetology services, and others performing work under a contract for professional services, with another business entity, or pursuant to a subcontract in the construction industry."


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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/13/2019 06:38 AM
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stokedpanda

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a good chunk of our IT staff are contractors and they make bank!

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