Sinking feeling: experts warn coastal towns should be 'abandoned' due to rising sea levels
Yahoo News UK David Harding,Yahoo News UK Fri, Aug 23 6:11 AM EDT

Many coastal towns should be abandoned because of rising sea levels, a group of experts has warned.

Environmental researchers at Harvard University say authorities around the world have to accept the inevitable.

They warn that the impact of climate change is going to mean coastal towns around the world disappearing.

And instead of wasting billions of pounds trying to save them, governments should make a "managed retreat" from many of the towns.

"We can do that the hard way, by fighting for every inch and losing lives and dollars in the meantime," AR Siders, an environmental fellow at Harvard University, said.

"Or we can do it willingly and thoughtfully and . . . re-think the way we live."

It may sound like a drastic warning, but the Harvard researchers insist that the relocation of coastal communities is no longer a question of if, but when and how for many.

"Retreat is happening," he told Science magazine.

"For retreat to work well, it needs to be part of a larger strategy, tailored to local circumstances, to long-term community goals."

The report backs up research released earlier this summer by Britain's Environment Agency.

In May, it warned that flooding caused by global warming could result in whole towns being moved away from the coast and rivers to keep people safe.

It made the warning as the government published its long-term strategy for managing the risk of flooding and erosion of the coastline.

The warnings could potentially impact on many people living on the coast or in flood plains in the UK and elsewhere.

It is estimated that around three million people live on the coast in the UK.

One study released last year estimated that more than five million British homes were at the risk of flooding because of their proximity to rivers, seas or other areas of extreme surface water.

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Dora Hates You

relocation of coastal communities is no longer a question of if, but when and how for many......................Ah, so that is the question......................When..30 yrs?? 50 yrs for 1" -2" rise??.........When do you start relocation.... after a town is drowned??? the year before it is drowned???.... These Havard fellahs.... where do they live??? Are they relocating to higher ground???

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When insurance companies no longer offer 30 year mortgages?

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I was right.

Let's dismantle the EPA..

LOL

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Zzzzzzz.. Zzzzzzz.. Braaaaaapp!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Yeah, silly dongsnatch: millions of acres of coastal real estate swallowed up and disappearing is just a hoot, huh? Yuk it up dork.
Cuz: you know better.
Cuz: unka donnie told you so.
Us coastal military facilities around the world are currently taking active measures to deal with comrade loofah"s "so called chinese climate change hoax".....so they can continue defending my beloved america from actual threats.
Like his Korean, Israeli, Arab, "RUSSIAN"!', Chinese fukbuddies.
The hell with our actual allies, right altbreits?
Sovereign island nations are buying access to higher ground when their land disappears underwater
etc etc etc.....
Wise. the fuck. up......
Deliberately stupid, willfully ignorant chumpfscum vermin represent the single most clear and danger to our world. Period.
duuuhhuuhuuh.......



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It's a democratic hoax

Sovereign island nations are buying access to higher ground when their land disappears underwater etc etc etc.....SO Numbfuck.....were you one of the asshats that were giving Trump shit about wanting to BUY GREENLAND???.....Seems like the TRUMP is trying to get ahead of the game but your shortsightedness is getting in your way........Wise. the fuck. up...... Deliberately stupid, willfully ignorant shortsighted vermin, like yourself represent the single most clear and danger to our world. Period. duuuhhuuhuuh.......

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Unfortunately that's exactly what's happening right now...

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GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project

I'm looking at some places in Chicago.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Fact!

Dear Nook, I am deeply sorry that you are unable to grasp the reality of most situations but, as it may be, I did not express any opinions in this post. I simply pasted a news article about what the esteemed researchers at Harvard suggest. It seems pretty clear to me that they are tacitly asserting that we are fooked in regard to rising of the seas. There really is not much, if anything at all, that we can do to stop it at this point. We can "talk" about it with our economic partners for another 30+ years but in the end there will be no change. But, , , , , given that it seems to be coming to a complete, world wide, disaster, we should consider military force to bring the rest of the world into line.

And, otherwise, as far as Cole's comment about 30 year mortgages goes, , , ,. You better believe that the Bank America types have already put together all the appropriate Power Points in regard to "best" and "worst" case scenarios when it comes to sea level. Their actuaries are busily working on establishing their "No Go" point. I'm thinking that it would be a money winning bet to say that your beach side property will be adjudged to have "no economic life" before you even know that such real estate things are happening. No home owners insurance, no equity, nothing, but you will still owe the whole nut. You will be dead before the Government gets around to "lending you a hand". It might just be me (what do I know) but I'd have to say that, as of now, you would have to be an idiot to get into a new 30 year mortgage for anything "beach side".

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Dora Hates You

I did not express any opinions in this post.

By forwarding information, it appears that you do.

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I was right.

Please, let's talk sensibly about this. Here is a link to one of the Harvard studies.

Some upsetting, but starkly real, excerpts:

>>. Of particular concern to human civilization is the fate of the world's coastal cities. Conservative estimates of sea level rise by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Changes (IPCC) project increases of more than half a foot to two feet by the year 2100. More up-to-date analyses by the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, which account for the effects of melting ice sheets around the globe, suggest that sea level will rise three feet to as much as five feet or more by 2100. Ninety years from now, in other words, vast densely populated coastal areas around the world will be underwater, including major cities - unless they prepare. <<

>> Kayden notes that the calculus over how many inches or feet, and by when must be coupled with the one certainty of politics: it moves slowly. "When you begin to align political terms of office, expenditures of money, and [questions such as] who wins, who loses, who pays," he says, "that constellation leads to a lot of thinking, but it doesn't lead to action. <<

>> Even a modest rise in sea level - the 12 inches expected by 2046 or sooner, for instance - combined with a powerful storm, a high tide, and the right winds, would make most of Boston briefly part of the Atlantic Ocean. Flooding from storm surges would be accelerated by modern conduits like sewers, subway tunnels, and turnpikes, and by square miles of impervious surfaces that don't soak up water but instead channel it into the heart of the city's infrastructure. <<

http://environment.harvard.edu/node/3272

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Dora Hates You

Here's a link to a list of "Abstracts" from Harvard. VERY interesting. Now, I know that many here may be upset to learn such things, particularly given the notion that none of these studies are politicaly motivated and otherwise do not reinforce what you may want to "wish for". Otherwise, yes, yes, yes, Al Gore is/was 100% correct and as such, Obama should have declared Marshal Law to get the situation corrected.

Try this link to start with, then "Find Similar Abstracts": http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2016AGUFMGC21E1145T

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Dora Hates You

Edited: 08/25/2019 at 03:23 PM by dingpatch

Probably not a good financial move. Chicago property values. . Chicago, like many areas in prog held territory, is in trouble. Oddly enough, our beach side property - which supposedly will be underwater in a few years - is appreciating.

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I :heart; Q

Chicago is doing fine, but much like California, it's probably not for you. But I'll keep my beach house for now since I'm not a fan of lake effect snow.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Republican media are a bunch of liars.

Overall, according to Yarbrough, the total assessed value of all property in the county rose from $14.4 billion to $14.9 billion, up 5.1 percent.


http://www.chicagobusiness.com...-taxes-are-about-soar


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I was right.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Thats rich!

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Republican media has no use for the truth, I prove that fact every day.

Trump is a liar too, but that needs no proof cause everyone knows it.

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I was right.

Edited: 08/27/2019 at 08:10 PM by Cole

You prove that in fact YOU are a liar...every day!

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Good cya dork

You mad bro?

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Is nobodyelse asserting that twitler wanted to buy Greenland for environmental reasons? You know I haven't read up on the idiot in chief's motives on that one but I have a feeling it's got something to do with $ or chicks and nothing to do with climate change.

Here's a link to a list of "Abstracts" from Harvard. VERY interesting. Now, I know that many here may be upset to learn such things, particularly given the notion that none of these studies are politicaly motivated and otherwise do not reinforce what you may want to "wish for". Otherwise, yes, yes, yes, Al Gore is/was 100% correct and as such, Obama should have declared Marshal Law to get the situation corrected.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-...nph-abs_connect


A page of indexes of abstracts with no mention of anything about climate change or sea level rise.
Yessiree billybob, thats make it perfectly clear. As mud.
Now, you could post some links to someplace like NOAA or NASA. Or an actual oceanography and climate research institute like Wood's Hole or U.M. Rosentiel school of atmospheric and ocean science. Maybe those are too libtard and partisan for ya
Since they are quite firm in their conclusions that sea level rise and climate change are quite real. And caused by human actions
Nope: harvard....lol
Of course, then dumbodydense weighs in with his nickelbags worth.
Pacific islanders are facing an existential threat as their lands disappear under the ocean. Because of sea level rise. Period.
Chumpfs advisors brought up greenland to him as a joke. One he didnt quite get, apparently. (Yes, virginia: he really is that stupid).
One slight snag though. The people of greenland dont want to be sold off to yet another colonial power, they're already not real happy with being controlled by denmark. "We are not chattel"
Now, perhaps king loofa boy could declare "martial" law, issue an imperial edict. And send an invasion force to annex it. Maybe split it with his vladdie daddy
Kinda like the time his heroes stalin and hitler divided up eastern europe in the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact 80 years ago.
Commies and nazis working together. Kinda like chumpflandia today, huh?

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It's a democratic hoax

Edited: 08/25/2019 at 02:00 PM by nukeh2o

Oh, yeah, and: duuuuhhhhhh.......

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It's a democratic hoax

Edited: 08/25/2019 at 11:47 AM by nukeh2o

Engineers will remedy the situation, it will be expensive but through the use of mechanical , water diversion techniques and structural addition/changes the additional water will be diverted ..again it will cost $$$ but due to the slow the relative slow rise, the "fixes" will be a step wise implementation ...not worried but also not saying sea level and global warming is false, Yes, there is an issue, and yes scientist and engineers will be able to save the coastal zones at a large cost.

Hmmmm, , , , we're not arguing about wether or not the seas are rising, or what the cause is. This is about what we need to do about it.

And, I'm sorry that I did not pay attension to the source of the links. The "abstracts" as such are found at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory/NASA ADS Physics Abstract Service.

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Dora Hates You

Edited: 08/25/2019 at 02:07 PM by dingpatch

Now all we need is for herr fat macdonnie to declare hisself king of the chumperlands.
And we'll build dikes around the coasts of the U.S.....and: China will pay for it! After all: it's their climate change hoax, isn't it?
Yeah, that's it! And we'll bring in thousands of Dutch boys with big fingers to plug the leaks in it.
Should work just about as well as that border wall comrade chumpf has built, huh?
Maybe pigblo's trailer ranch in Mims will be waterfront after all.
Oh wait: president pence doesn't approve of dikes.......

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It's a democratic hoax

Edited: 08/25/2019 at 03:30 PM by nukeh2o

"When insurance companies no longer offer 30 year mortgages?" Banks offer mortgages coleslaw!

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

"I'm looking at some places in Chicago. " The south side would be perfect for you!

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

The gov't is already buying up waterfront homes damage by Irma in the Keys so these areas cannot be rebuilt.

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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Also homes flooded by Sandy in the NE

Barack and Michelle Obama must not believe in climate change.

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

The gov't is already buying up waterfront homes damage by Irma in the Keys so these areas cannot be rebuilt.......... That's a fairly elegant solution but we are footing the bill....... A better one might be along the lines of making the insurance companies pay full damages for storm damage instead of governments stepping in and bailing them out. That way the market forces (Insurance costs) limit new construction and rebuilding in low lying areas....

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Me too Rusty. There will be no problem finding a climate change denying twitler supporter in the future to buy my place.

The only problem is the aforementioned MAGA scraping the money together since they will be extremely old and back meds and alcohol will have taken a toll on their mental faculties.

Two good friends of mine have lived in Chicago since the late 1970s. They've had it and are both ready to GTFO!

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Dora Hates You

Rusty's happy place!! (His kind of Socialist Utopia)

---

Imagine you're nearing the end of your life and it's time to tell you children and grandkids what you're leaving them.

---

"Kids, here's the deal," you say. "I worked hard all my life. I wanted to make you proud. I wanted to leave you a nice nest egg. I tried. But you know, we're in Chicago and Illinois. We procrastinate here, so I'm going to have to leave you with this overdue bill. It's $126,000. I'm so sorry."

---

Last month, the nonpartisan organization Truth in Accounting issued a report that looked at all the debt run up by Chicago and its various other governments, including schools. It concluded that each Chicago taxpayer is on the hook for more than $75,000. Add to that a state debt of more than $50,000 per taxpayer, and Truth in Accounting figures you owe more than $126,000. (Chicago Sun Times)

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

It isn't just coastal towns.It's flyover land too.
Our insane federal flood insurance programs pay people to rebuild in floodplains to flood again.
Climate change is making the floods more severe, gonna get a lot worse
enough with this one already
Pay them only if they move to high ground. Or back to Detroit.

I don't think we will see the reality of climate change priced into the FL real estate market for another couple of decades at least, as we won't be seeing much of the sea level rise effect for a while. I'm expecting my next 4 or so decades to be able to stay here safely if I choose to. But I'll watch public awareness too. If reality ever does return to the Republican Party, they start looking at facts there could be a panic sell off before the real effect/ I wonder what happens when the wall of lies breaks, when this red county has to reconcile with the lie, that most of its tax base really is in fact slowly slipping away into the sea.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Former Clinton pollster Doug Schoen on some Americans moving from high-tax states to states with low-tax rates or no taxes.

---

The states where populations have grown the fastest over the past year include a handful with either low, or no, state income taxes.

---

According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau Opens a New Window. , in the year ending in July, states with no income taxes - like Florida, Nevada and Washington - saw among the largest jumps in population growth.

---

On the other hand, in some higher-tax states, populations actually shrank. In New York, for example, where state income taxes extend up to 8.82 percent Opens a New Window. , 48,510 people left the state. More than 45,100 residents left Illinois, where the state income tax was recently raised to 4.95 percent Opens a New Window. , from 3.75 percent - in addition to a host of other financial challenges within the state government.

---

Must be a red state thing.

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

"Some Americans" - you mean boomers over 65 who have nice pensions from Union jobs and don't want to pay any taxes.

Fuck them, they took and took and gave nothing back, and now they're whining old bitches because there are brown people who live near Del Boca Vista, Phase III.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

You mean they worked their whole life and don't want to freeze and pay ridiculous taxes to support libtard policies?

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

They climbed a ladder and want to push it away from the wall. They took advantage of liberal policies; cheap college education, good paying manufacturing jobs, fixed benefit pensions. Then they voted for reactionaries who destroyed all those things for the next generation. Why? Greed. They invested in a world view that tells them that they deserve everything they have, but no one else deserves anything, especially if they look different.



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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Isn't the lib support of unions and the resulting pensions their mantra?

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

Well as an actual leftist I'd say the "libs" have paid lip service to organized labor but stood idly by for 50 years as the right wing, funded by big business, did everything possible to destroy it.

Organized labor and trade unions are a cornerstone of the socialist movement underway right now. Unions are the only way to balance power with the corporations and fight for fare wages and benefits.

"One big Union"

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

So the greedy bastards support socialist pensions?

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

can spankit speak english? what the he$$ is he trying to say/insult/bray at?

Pooor greensnot, can't understand English!!

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

"NOAA says "the absolute global sea level rise is believed to be 1.7-1.8 millimeters/year" - about half what NASA is claiming from their satellite data. Sea level has risen 400 feet in the last 20,000 years - almost all of that before 8,000 years ago. It has nothing to do with humans.

There is no indication that sea level rise is accelerating and no indication that government climate scientists are capable of being honest about anything. Ever."



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Dora Hates You

Actually, there is. Florida isn't sinking like Hampton Road. The sea level data from Florida bend upward in the last 2-3 decades. Keep in mind too where civilization exists on the graph from the last glacial maximum to today. Stability is necessary to maintain, well, stability. Things have been rather optimum for modern man for the last few thousand years. I'd say deviating from that optimum is likely to be disruptive.

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...

Things have been rather optimum for modern man for the last few thousand years. I'd say deviating from that optimum is likely to be disruptive....................BUT. is that few thousand year optimum the norm in terms of geological time??? Geologically speaking several thousand years of stability while optimum for modern man may NOT be the norm..... What is the norm over a few hundred thousand years and over a few million years..............How often over the last several million years were things Optimum for man??

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You could crack a text book or google it. You know there used to be dinosaurs and an ice free earth even when the sun was cooler than it is today? naarrrfff.

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...

The point is that the optimum as you pointed out is only several thousand years long AND it is NOT the NORM....You are trying to maintain an Optimum as being the 'Norm' when is not even a normal state geologically speaking....

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It's the norm as far as modern civilization is concerned. No need to kick the system into a change outside of geological processes and time.

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...

The source of the graphic

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Dora Hates You

https://principia-scientific.o...-from-three-years-ago/

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Dora Hates You

They make that site look all sciencey and official. High Standards of Publishing

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...

Edited: 09/24/2019 at 09:13 AM by scombrid

Regardless of your views on Heller, the following is the kind of stuff that rightfully catches the "denier's" attention.




From Heller: NASA's surface temperatures have been steadily altered over time to cool pre-1970 temperatures and warm post-1970 temperatures. This creates the appearance of warming, which is necessary to keep government grants coming into the agency.

During March of 2015, I predicted that Carl Mears at RSS, under extreme pressure from the climate mafia, would alter his satellite data to match the fraudulent NASA surface temperature datasets.

Look for the satellite data to be adjusted to bring it into compliance with the fully fraudulent surface temperatures. The Guardian is now working to discredit UAH, so it seems likely that RSS will soon be making big changes - to match the needs of the climate mafia. Bookmark this post.

And that is exactly what happened. I captured this image about a year ago, which showed that both satellite data sets (RSS and UAH) closely matched, and diverged sharply from NASA's surface temperatures.

This is the current version of the same graph. The RSS satellite data has been tampered with to make it match the NASA surface data.

The only two people who were qualified to review this data tampering by RSS, Dr. Roy Spencer and Dr. John Christy, were not consulted and the changes were not submitted for peer review to them.

Here were Dr. Spencer's predictions from January 2017.

"I expect there will soon be a revised TLT product from RSS which shows enhanced warming, too.

Here's what I'm predicting:

1) neither John Christy nor I will be asked to review the paper

2) it will quickly sail through peer review (our UAH V6 paper is still not in print nearly 1 year after submission)

3) it will have many authors, including climate model people and the usual model pundits (e.g. Santer), which will supposedly lend legitimacy to the new data adjustments.

Let's see how many of my 3 predictions come true.

-Roy"

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Dora Hates You

Edited: 09/24/2019 at 11:03 AM by dingpatch

That is Heller's incorrect opinion. That are multiple streams of data from different sources and you would have us believe that they are all fake. Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Analysis was an independent study, funding partially by Kochs of all people, to investigate the reliability of surface station data. You should check it out. Makes Tony Heller and Anthony Watt look like fools. And makes mangroves expand their range way up into Flagler county. Must have gone and changed all the data I've been downloading and exploring myself. Spencer doesn't want to admit a mistake he made with the UAH dataset. Spencer's Folly

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...

And now, to put a factual, "spin of reality" on all of this:

https://www.marketwatch.com/st...teid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

Climate change will break the housing market, says David Burt, who predicted the 2008 financial crisis

Published: Nov 2, 2019 10:41 a.m. ET

Burt's Cornwall Capital was player in the book 'The Big Short'

Risk to the housing market from underestimated climate change echoes lessons from the 2008 subprime-mortgage debacle - as does the chance to capitalize on these miscalculations.

That's the view of David Burt, whose old firm and its timely escape from the financial crisis just over a decade ago featured in Michael Lewis's book "The Big Short."

Burt makes a climate change and subprime lending connection in a recent interview with Vice:

'There's a lot of parallels, it's a big real estate mispricing issue. At its core that presents a lot of the same risks. A lot of real estate is massively overpriced and there's a lot of risk associated with that and the big risk is another foreclosure crisis. Now, it's a very different dynamic that's creating the mispricing, but actually magnitude-wise it looks pretty similar, maybe even bigger.' David Burt

The first serious market ripples from industry nonchalance, Burt says, could materialize as early as next year.

Burt was a consultant at Cornwall Capital, the firm that made about $80 million when it shorted the subprime mortgage market whose eventual implosion left the housing market in a shambles and lured well-positioned investors to pick through the bones. Cornwall was profiled in the Lewis narrative and one of Burt's colleagues was played by Brad Pitt in the movie adaptation.

As Vice reports, just as Burt did before the last crash, he has left his big-time investing job, this time splitting with the $1 trillion Wellington Management. Burt now heads an investment firm that believes it can profit from the lack of attention being paid to the risk of climate change in a property industry that's building, buying, selling and lending (cheaply) without taking into account rising sea levels and inland flood risks.


The problem, other climate-change experts allege, starts with government flood maps that under-report risk and continues through the complex multilayer housing, lending and insurance market where risks are diluted, or at least, mispriced.

Between $60 billion to $100 billion worth of mortgages for U.S. coastal homes are issued each year. Some 311,000 existing coastal homes will be repeatedly flooded, or lost altogether, within the next 30 years, according to sea-level calculations that the Union of Concerned Scientists publishes. That means the often high-population states of California, Texas, Florida, Maryland, New Jersey and New York are vulnerable, as are retirement destinations including the Carolinas.

The number and total value of flood insurance policies has been declining since 2006, meaning that households that purchased a property in coastal areas especially may be at increased risk of defaulting on their mortgages, a recent academic paper says.

In 2016, Freddie Mac's then - chief economist Sean Becketti wrote that "the economic losses and social disruption [of rising seas on coastal housing] may happen gradually, but they are likely to be greater in total than those experienced in the housing crisis and Great Recession."

Burt sees opportunity but says he also wants to sound the alarm.

"I love the environment and nature and much of my joy in life comes from going for walks in the woods or on the beach with my family," he told Vice. "We have no idea how bad things really could get, there's far bigger risks associated with climate change than depreciating home values and some of them are just really, really scary."

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Dora Hates You

The river is almost in canal yards in Cocoa beach and tides don't matter.

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I was right.

Well, , , , , OK, , , , let's quit arguing about whether or not the "warming" is caused by humanity. It really does not matter much in regard to our short-term problems; anything "man" can, or should, do is a pipe dream. Just aint going to happen any time soon. It does seem that the seas are rising a bit and, as such, how are we going to deal with it?

Anybody who lives "beach side" needs to pay attention to David Burt. Around Brevard, we probably do not need to worry about any drastic, sudden, changes, , , , YET. BUT, , , , that is not to say that the Bankers and the general property markets might not start reacting sooner, than later.. What are we to do if, let's say, at the end of 2020 our "beach side" properties lose a small percentage of their values because of these concerns? Now, if the realtors and the bankers get really nervous about it, it could start getting worse and worse much sooner than we would currently imagine. I would be very, very, cautious about financing anything beach side.

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Dora Hates You

There has never been a CO2 level this high.

How can you people think that all the shit we pump into the air will have no effect? You are just the modern version of the people who thought we could do nothing to the oceans. For fuck sake, enough already.

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I was right.

Wrong
We are worried about disrupting the Optimum with new input.
We are worried about the new rate of change that all of the math and physics and models and observations tell us is caused by us.

Exiting the optimum is gonna be expensive, and all of that science is still telling us we have a chance to NOT, if we act.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

The disrupting of the Optimum.............We created the optimum by our presence............The Ice ages were 100,000 year long occurrences punctuated by 10,000 year warm periods............ We disrupted this Normal cycle by burning coal and wood a 800 to 300 years ago, we called it a mini- ice age, but it was our actions that prevented another ice age....................... AND you call it an Optimum as if it was Optimal for all humans..........Those in the sub-Sahara or in the tundra and frigid north may not agree that this climate is Optimal for all mankind, The NORM as far as modern civilizations like the Europeans has been a game change enabling them to prosper and take over the world........ The NORM as far as other cultures has created deserts in places that used to be grasslands and doomed those peoples to hardships and struggles just to survive........ but the Germans have declared that a hangover is a medical illness, so we have that going for us.....

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Edited: 09/24/2019 at 09:46 AM by somebodyelse

Anthropogenic warming is a myth. CO2 has zero impact on climate. I read that on Ding's links. You can ask his buddy Tony Heller about it. Or maybe James Delingpole. They like him too.

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...

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/go...vel-rise-accelerating


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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

What's the source for that chart and quotation?

Dings image links back to a blog post by 'Tony Heller'. Also writes under pseudonym "Steven Goddard".

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...

Edited: 09/24/2019 at 08:03 AM by scombrid

Oh, yeah, that blogger guy with a b.s. degree in geology and a PhD in quackery.

no. this rate of change is not a geological norm.
It is caused by mankind's release of millennium worth of stored carbon in just a frw decades
The science is clear.
'
enough already


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

oh, Heller

I was going to expend some effort, was looking to fix that link.
never mind


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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill