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Topic Title: High speed rail, , , ,
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Created On: 01/27/2020 08:08 AM
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 01/27/2020 08:08 AM
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dingpatch

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So, I know that there had been plenty of local discussion about the Pros and Cons of a 125 MPH train hauling ass through Brevard (85 MPH through areas with "crossings").

But, the other night at the drinking hole, , , , , one of the folks who evidently does not pay much attention to the world around them, , , , mentioned "all the work" along 528 and wondered what it was about!!

"The High Speed rail line!"

"No, we havn't voted on that yet!

WTF?" LOL. LOL. LOL.
 01/31/2020 11:37 AM
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saltydog73

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You don't have a choice in the Virgin Trains project. The state approved it and the Treasure Coast counties lost our lawsuits. It's going to happen... if you are lucky, Brevard will get a stop
 02/01/2020 03:19 AM
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HAPDigital

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There will be a stop at the port.
 02/01/2020 12:18 PM
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dab

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https://cms8.fra.dot.gov/environment/completed-environmental-reviews/all-aboard-florida-passenger-rail-project-west-palm


https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/brightline-high-speed-rail-project-florida/


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 02/02/2020 04:52 AM
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RocketSurf

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The last time a train was threatened to be built, deep in the wording was a hidden agenda. The biggest money maker was the Jet fuel pipeline that was to extend from the Port to MCO. I don't know if this project includes a pipeline but I bet within the next 5 years they will use the "easement" and install one. The train I'm not to worried about but if a pipeline bursts over the St Johns river or the IRL we are screwed.....
 02/02/2020 07:55 AM
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dab

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If you're willing to take the time to research you will find that there are multiple agendas attached to the High Speed Rail Corridor. One is that FECR will get rail access to MCO. Upgraded intelligent tracks will allow all trains to maintain higher speeds Along with more trains per 24 hr period. That will mean an increase in freight trains. One of the proposal selling points was that it will lower the volume of Tractor Trailer trips on the I95 corridor by lowering the cost to move containers along that corridor. Projecting a cost savings to maintain and upgrade I95.

The argument has Been that FECI the parent company of FECR and All Aboard Florida which became BrightLine now operated as Virgin should be wholly at risk with the risk associated with Virgin Rail success. Currently they are not.

Overly simplified: Florida Citizens have 80% of the risk if Virgin fails. FECI gets a high speed rail corridor for FECR for 20 cents on the dollar.

Opinion: As for a passenger spur to the port from MCO, only if Disney World controls it.

A Station for Brevard is not planed but is alluded to if ridership can be proven. Build it and they will come paradigm is not being subscribed to. See Miami, Ft Lauderdale and West Palm Beach Stations.

Do the research, draw your own conclusions.

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 02/02/2020 09:46 AM
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HAPDigital

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Originally posted by: dab

If you're willing to take the time to research you will find that there are multiple agendas attached to the High Speed Rail Corridor. One is that FECR will get rail access to MCO. Upgraded intelligent tracks will allow all trains to maintain higher speeds Along with more trains per 24 hr period. That will mean an increase in freight trains. One of the proposal selling points was that it will lower the volume of Tractor Trailer trips on the I95 corridor by lowering the cost to move containers along that corridor. Projecting a cost savings to maintain and upgrade I95.



The argument has Been that FECI the parent company of FECR and All Aboard Florida which became BrightLine now operated as Virgin should be wholly at risk with the risk associated with Virgin Rail success. Currently they are not.



Overly simplified: Florida Citizens have 80% of the risk if Virgin fails. FECI gets a high speed rail corridor for FECR for 20 cents on the dollar.



Opinion: As for a passenger spur to the port from MCO, only if Disney World controls it.



A Station for Brevard is not planed but is alluded to if ridership can be proven. Build it and they will come paradigm is not being subscribed to. See Miami, Ft Lauderdale and West Palm Beach Stations.



Do the research, draw your own conclusions.


I just heard rumors, looks like you have done quite the bit of research.
 02/02/2020 01:00 PM
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fishkller

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The extra noise and traffic delays will suck.

Brevard will get a stop right around the time we get flying cars



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 02/02/2020 03:50 PM
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ww

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    Tracks in south Brevard are already being converted from single-track to double-track. That means crossings will be worked on reasonably soon
.
    There won't be a station at the Port. Not practical to build bridges, and the existing right of way via Titusville isn't practical
.
    Where things get interesting is extending passenger service to Disney (using tracks laid down to move coal to Orlando's big power plant and sharing some with commuter rail), then perhaps using the median of I-4 to go to Tampa. The median was designed for rail and Virgin Trains has applied to rent it, but apparently FDOT would rather use the space for more lanes.
    There is also concern over the popularity of Virgin Trains for people wanting to kill themselves in SE Florida.
 02/03/2020 06:06 AM
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tom

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Saw that at Valkaria Rd. and US-1 this weekend. Planning to double up the bridges at various tributaries, Crane Creek, Turkey Creek, Eau Gallie River, etc. I guess?

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 02/03/2020 06:45 AM
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dab

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Hap - didn't mean to come off as snarky. My apologies.



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 02/03/2020 06:49 AM
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ww

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Yup. The only single bridge is to be at Stuart, and Virgin Trains is looking for money to replace that one. And yes, no one seemed to notice, but the Florida East Coast Railroad is getting what might be a useful line to the warehouse area around Orlando Airport. Virgin Trains has spent a huge amount on stations, especially in Miami. The idea is to have lots of passenger traffic, lots of things for passengers to do, like at Japanese and some European rail stations. The thinking was pretty clearly that by using an existing rail line rather than building a new one from scratch, it would be feasible to make a profit on rail service.

Edited: 02/03/2020 at 07:04 AM by ww
 02/03/2020 12:54 PM
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saltydog73

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If you look at the timeline of Brightline/Virgin/Highspeed Trains to connect S. Fl to Orlando and the fact that the rail lines utilized will be FECs freight rail lines instead of a new straighter pathed rail lines, it all falls in line perfectly with the widening of the Panama Canal allowing more shipping freight to be directly offloaded at the Port of Miami instead of the Port of LA and being trucked across the country. The biggest winner will be FEC and the ability to handle the additional freight coming into the Port of Miami
 02/05/2020 03:34 AM
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ww

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I think CSX also has access to the Port of Miami. The Port of Miami did benefit, big, from the new Panama Canal locks. Logistics Management

Edited: 02/05/2020 at 03:41 AM by ww
 02/05/2020 08:09 AM
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dab

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CSX RAIL MAP: https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/maps/csx-system-map/

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 02/05/2020 10:17 AM
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saltydog73

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Yes, CSX also has access but Virgin is using FECs lines so if/when the passenger rail service fails, FEC will be the winner
 02/06/2020 05:18 AM
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tom

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Coming to an intersection near you... https://www.npr.org/2020/01/29...number-of-track-deaths FWIW - I like the idea of passenger rail and high speed, just maybe not on the 100 year old low speed freight right of way.

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 02/06/2020 05:30 AM
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johnnyboy

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It's affectionately known as Darwin's broom here in Palm Beach county. There are serious questions about whether these people who wander in front of trains are suicidal or just so stupid. The crossings have barriers and bells and there's not a lot left to the imagination. Still, every week we give out a Darwin Award at some crossing.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 02/06/2020 01:09 PM
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dab

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Absolutely correct Salty! FECR has been granted a speed pass to MCO.

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 02/06/2020 08:09 PM
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ww

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By American standards, the FEC line is relatively new, having been built in the late 19th century for both freight and passengers. It's very straight. Japan built new lines for the Shinkansen and is building more new lines for the next-generation Shinkansen.
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