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Topic Title: FYI - Good information from a respiratory therapist:
Topic Summary: Corona Common Sense
Created On: 04/01/2020 02:27 PM
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 04/01/2020 02:27 PM
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dab

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FYI - Good information from a respiratory therapist:

CORONA Common Sense

Since they are calling on Respiratory Therapist to help fight the Coronavirus, and I am a retired one, too old to work in a hospital setting, I'm going to share some common sense wisdom with those that have the virus and are trying to stay home. If my advice is followed as given, you will improve your chances of not ending up in the hospital on a ventilator. This applies to the otherwise generally healthy population, so use discretion.

1. Only high temperatures kill a virus, so let your fever run high. Tylenol will bring your fever down allowing the virus to live longer. They are saying that Ibuprofen, Advil, Aleve, Motrin, etc. will actually exacerbate the virus. Use common sense and don't let a fever go over 103 or 104, if you got the guts. If it gets higher than that, take your Tylenol, not Ibuprofen or Advil ( or any type of anti-inflammatory drugs ) to keep it regulated. It helps to keep your house warm and cover up with blankets so your body does not have to work so hard to generate the heat. It usually takes about 3 days of this to break the fever.

2. The body is going to dehydrate with the elevated temperature, so you must rehydrate yourself regulaly, whether you like it or not. Gatorade with real sugar, or pedialyte with real sugar for kids works well. Why the sugar? Sugar will give your body back the energy it is using up to create the fever. The electrolytes and fluid you are losing will also be replenished by the Gatorade. If you don't do this and end up in the hospital they will start an IV and give you D5W ( sugar water ) and normal saline to replenish electrolytes. Gatorade is much cheaper, pain free, and comes in an assortment of flavors.

3. You must keep your lungs moist. This is best done by taking long steamy showers on a regular basis. If you're wheezing or congested, use a real minty toothpaste and brush your teeth while taking the steamy shower and deep breaths through your mouth. This will provide some bronchial dialation and help loosen the phlegm. Force yourself to cough into a wet wash cloth pressed firmly over your mouth and nose, which will cause greater pressure in your lungs forcing them to expand more and break loose more of the congestion.

4. Eat healthy and regularly. You've got to keep your strength up.

5. Once the fever breaks, start moving around to get the body back in shape and blood circulating.

6. Deep breathe on a regular basis, even when it hurts. If you don't, it becomes easy to develope pneumonia. Pursed lip breathing really helps. That's breathing
in deep and slow, then exhaling through tight lips as if you're blowing out a candle. Blow until you have completely emptied your lungs and you will be able to breathe in an even deeper breath. This helps keep lungs expanded as well as increase your oxygen level.

7. Remember that every medication you take is merely relieving the symptoms, not making you well.

8. If you're still not improving, then go to the ER.

I've been doing these things for myself and my family for over 40 years and it has kept us out of the hospital. All are healthy and still living today.

Thank you for sharing this information. We have got to help one another right now.

Copy and paste."

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 04/01/2020 03:13 PM
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Cole

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Prednisone is a big no no too.

Good info. Thanks.
 04/02/2020 08:13 AM
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RustyTruck

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To treat or not treat fever is controversial.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703655/

More or less a toss up between the increased metabolic strain vs. fever as a physiologic defense.


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 04/02/2020 11:12 AM
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dab

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Originally posted by: Cole

Prednisone is a big no no too.



Good info. Thanks.


Yes, any NSAID or steroid is said to block the Cox-2 channel which is a precursor to raising body temp to create more favorable conditions for the immune response. No aspirin or acetaminophen either. Acetaminophen only if you get too high of a fever. Probably better to do a cold bath (?).

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 04/02/2020 11:25 AM
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dab

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Originally posted by: RustyTruck

To treat or not treat fever is controversial.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm...les/PMC4703655/



More or less a toss up between the increased metabolic strain vs. fever as a physiologic defense.


Great, smart assessment of fever. With the jury still out I'm going with the permissive fever response. Curtailing at 102.4 with a cold bath. But, keeping the acetaminophen option if it keeps climbing even with the cold bath.

Lets all hope we don't need to test our fever response paradigm.

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 04/02/2020 11:36 AM
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RustyTruck

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If you're caring for someone at home, of course the thing to follow most closely is respiratory status. Not a bad idea to drop $20-30 on a pulse oximeter for oxygen saturation and watch for downward trends and signs of respiratory fatigue. The situation in the hospitals will deteriorate quickly, I would avoid unless early signs of respiratory failure appear, then there's no choice.

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 04/02/2020 12:35 PM
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dab

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Thax RT!

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 04/02/2020 02:32 PM
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RegularJoe

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Originally posted by: RustyTruck

If you're caring for someone at home, of course the thing to follow most closely is respiratory status. Not a bad idea to drop $20-30 on a pulse oximeter for oxygen saturation and watch for downward trends and signs of respiratory fatigue. The situation in the hospitals will deteriorate quickly, I would avoid unless early signs of respiratory failure appear, then there's no choice.


^Word. The ICU doc in https://www.2ndlight.com/fuset...atid=4&threadid=195664 said shortness of breath was the primary symptom indicating a trip to the ER.

I've had one of those pulse ox meters for a while, and it came in handy mid-January.

The average person should probably be at around 98% in good health, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not sure where the cutoff point is before you go to the hospital, but if you see a continuously dropping trend, start getting ready to go, because that shit can deteriorate quickly.

I found a brief, slow walk around the block (fresh air!) raised mine by about 5 points.
 04/03/2020 06:41 AM
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Cole

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Warm, non caffeinated liquids help me with bronchial issues too. I say no caffeine because the lack of oxygen in my blood increases my heart rate and the caffeine amplifies it.
 04/03/2020 12:59 PM
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moody

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Yeah, we saw a pulmonary ARNP via tele-medicine (she was awesome). We had a pulse oximeter and were told to head to the er STAT if the level dropped below 90% (it never did drop below 95% and I'm asthmatic so that was good). I've been darned sick for 2 weeks though. Our kid was in the hospital with appendicitis, so we may have picked something up then (not sure it was THAT, and we couldn't get tested, so ????).

Just FYI Health first is offering some tele-med appointments if you need to see someone. My thinking was that if I could stay home and isolate, I was going to, because if it WAS it, I didn't want to give it to anyone, and if it WASN'T, I didn't want to catch it by going around a bunch of people who thought they had it. So we stuck it out and pushed fluids and isolated ourselves (we haven't been off the property in 2 weeks and won't for at least 2 more. We've been having supplies dropped off at the gate; thank god for having a big piece of property, because we can sit in the sun every day and that's a huge blessing.

Today is the first day I've felt human in a long time, and I didn't realize how bad I had been feeling till I felt better...A bunch of my partner's office in the UK is really sick, and they are all young men, too.

Also, it's good to know that walking isn't too bad. I was a little worried about exercise but it felt good (we have been walking with the dogs around the property as we felt able).

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Edited: 04/03/2020 at 01:02 PM by moody
 04/04/2020 08:00 PM
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surferclimber

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Thanks for sharing this, and the good info added within the replies... It all makes sense - when I first heard of this I ordered Pedialyte & Goody's powders from Amazon before everything ran out - and that info about needing temperature to fight it off is interesting! I'll be passing on to my wife along with our close extended family, and thanks again for sharing this!!

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 04/09/2020 07:55 PM
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Sharktower

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I read this website, have not posted in a long time. I am an ER doctor and when I saw this post I wanted to respond. The original post is pseudoscience that is not validated in the medical literature and should be ignored. It is not attributed to a credible source and to date there is no research to support the numerous internet claims about how temperature affects the virus. The post also demonstrates a very poor understanding of fever, further demonstrating that this is not from a medical source. It mentions a respiratory therapist, but no name or institution is cited. Furthermore, a respiratory therapist (God bless them, I love my RT team members) is not qualified to speak to the properties and management of the virus. Most importantly, please avoid these unsubstantiated posts that are making the rounds. This is a very new situation for ALL of us and it is hard to parse the fire hose of new info, but the best bet for your health is to skip over anything that does not directly cite a doctor and a peer reviewed publication. Otherwise you are at risk of following bad advice that may be harmful, or worse, steal your attention from doing what is known to work--good hand hygiene, keep distance from others.

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Edited: 04/09/2020 at 07:56 PM by Sharktower
 04/10/2020 09:58 AM
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moody

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Yes, I should have been clearer that my own post in this thread was more anecdotal from the perspective of someone who had "seen" a pulmonology specialist, with some of the things that she had advised (it was mostly to mention that tele-medicine is beginning to be an option here - I should expand on this to say that I've used it via the NHS some and it's a more accepted practice in other countries and they're a bit more set up to handle that sort of practice, but since I'd done it there I knew what would be required so we made it work).

I have a tendency to segue and not mention that I'm doing that sometimes. I think my brain is still working at about 2/3 capacity...

it's like the "study" in the thread below about the modeling simulation done on exercise and breath dispersal - it LOOKS sensible, and we tend to take it from that perspective, but the person who did the modeling wasn't a scientist, and it's not even a study - it's a white paper and really needs to be followed up on more carefully and reviewed by interdisciplinary scientists in different fields to determine validity.

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 04/10/2020 11:52 AM
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dab

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Originally posted by: Sharktower

I read this website, have not posted in a long time. I am an ER doctor and when I saw this post I wanted to respond.

The original post is pseudoscience that is not validated in the medical literature and should be ignored. It is not attributed to a credible source and to date there is no research to support the numerous internet claims about how temperature affects the virus.

The post also demonstrates a very poor understanding of fever, further demonstrating that this is not from a medical source. It mentions a respiratory therapist, but no name or institution is cited. Furthermore, a respiratory therapist (God bless them, I love my RT team members) is not qualified to speak to the properties and management of the virus.

Most importantly, please avoid these unsubstantiated posts that are making the rounds. This is a very new situation for ALL of us and it is hard to parse the fire hose of new info, but the best bet for your health is to skip over anything that does not directly cite a doctor and a peer reviewed publication.

Otherwise you are at risk of following bad advice that may be harmful, or worse, steal your attention from doing what is known to work--good hand hygiene, keep distance from others.


Yes, you are correct. It is undocumented, not cited and not attributed. The advice is essentially what everyone does when they have a cold or flu anyway.

This publication Fever: suppress or let it ride? is the discussed source.



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Edited: 04/10/2020 at 11:58 AM by dab
 04/10/2020 06:50 PM
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LBLarry

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Originally posted by: Sharktower

I read this website, have not posted in a long time. I am an ER doctor and when I saw this post I wanted to respond.

The original post is pseudoscience that is not validated in the medical literature and should be ignored. It is not attributed to a credible source and to date there is no research to support the numerous internet claims about how temperature affects the virus.

The post also demonstrates a very poor understanding of fever, further demonstrating that this is not from a medical source. It mentions a respiratory therapist, but no name or institution is cited. Furthermore, a respiratory therapist (God bless them, I love my RT team members) is not qualified to speak to the properties and management of the virus.

Most importantly, please avoid these unsubstantiated posts that are making the rounds. This is a very new situation for ALL of us and it is hard to parse the fire hose of new info, but the best bet for your health is to skip over anything that does not directly cite a doctor and a peer reviewed publication.

Otherwise you are at risk of following bad advice that may be harmful, or worse, steal your attention from doing what is known to work--good hand hygiene, keep distance from others.


THIS !!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As soon as I read the "advise" about trying to maintain a fever to "kill" the COVID-19 virus .... I thought, sounds like bullshit to me!!



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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.
 04/10/2020 06:52 PM
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LBLarry

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The advice is essentially what everyone does when they have a cold or flu anyway.


Bullshit .... nobody in their right mind tries to maintain a fever at something just below real danger level during a damn cold or flu!!

-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.
 04/10/2020 11:10 PM
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surferclimber

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Originally posted by: LBLarry
Originally posted by: Sharktower I read this website, have not posted in a long time. I am an ER doctor and when I saw this post I wanted to respond. The original post is pseudoscience that is not validated in the medical literature and should be ignored. It is not attributed to a credible source and to date there is no research to support the numerous internet claims about how temperature affects the virus. The post also demonstrates a very poor understanding of fever, further demonstrating that this is not from a medical source. It mentions a respiratory therapist, but no name or institution is cited. Furthermore, a respiratory therapist (God bless them, I love my RT team members) is not qualified to speak to the properties and management of the virus. Most importantly, please avoid these unsubstantiated posts that are making the rounds. This is a very new situation for ALL of us and it is hard to parse the fire hose of new info, but the best bet for your health is to skip over anything that does not directly cite a doctor and a peer reviewed publication. Otherwise you are at risk of following bad advice that may be harmful, or worse, steal your attention from doing what is known to work--good hand hygiene, keep distance from others.
THIS !!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ As soon as I read the "advise" about trying to maintain a fever to "kill" the COVID-19 virus .... I thought, sounds like bullshit to me!!
Yeah I read into that a bit more and, hmmmm,......... But the info about hydration & moisture to lungs like steamy shower I think is good common sense for mild cases. Overall I feel the OP was genuinely trying to share helpful advice. Of course medical advice on one's individual situation should be taken from their doctor! I read this as if you have it and only have mild symptoms here's some thoughts...

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 04/11/2020 08:26 AM
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dab

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Originally posted by: LBLarry

The advice is essentially what everyone does when they have a cold or flu anyway.




Bullshit .... nobody in their right mind tries to maintain a fever at something just below real danger level during a damn cold or flu!!


MAYO Clinic

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 04/11/2020 10:03 AM
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Cole

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Originally posted by: dab

Originally posted by: LBLarry



The advice is essentially what everyone does when they have a cold or flu anyway.








Bullshit .... nobody in their right mind tries to maintain a fever at something just below real danger level during a damn cold or flu!!




MAYO Clinic


Aspirin for a fever from the flu? I thought that was a no no?

 04/11/2020 10:05 AM
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Cole

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From Mayo again.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/dise...s-causes/syc-20377255

Reye's syndrome doesn't effect adults I guess. Either way, I'm skipping it.
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