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Topic Title: It was never the Ukraine
Topic Summary: It was always Russia
Created On: 12/03/2019 09:13 AM
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 12/03/2019 09:13 AM
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johnnyboy

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http://www.politico.com/news/2...on-interference-074796

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 12/03/2019 10:02 AM
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Greensleeves

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Yes. GOP "but Ukranians said bad things about our imperial misogynist in chief" Yes, but that is not election meddling. Handle it you sorry sacks. Jeez Jim Jordan is their spokes pervson.

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 12/03/2019 10:09 AM
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johnnyboy

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They are stuck in their defense rut and have resorted to the very hollow accusation that everyone in the Ukraine "preferred" Clinton to win the election, with no regard or appreciation of who Russia "preferred" or how they actively sought out members of campaign, stole the emails from the DNC, disseminated them strategically to time with Trump's pussy grabbing tape and how their propaganda was so effective that GOP senators are still using it today oblivious of their part in this.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 12/03/2019 10:13 AM
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theglide

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Many of Jim Jones followers willingly drank the Kool-Aid, knowing the consequence.
 12/03/2019 10:56 AM
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Sniper

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Fiona Hill Testimony:
"The goal of the Russians was really to put whoever became the president, by trying to tip their hands on one side of the scale, under a cloud. They seed misinformation, they seed doubt, they have everybody questioning the legitimacy of a presidential candidate, be it President Trump or potentially President [Hillary] Clinton, that they would pit one side of our electorate against the other, that they would pit one party against the other. The Russians essentially bet on both sides, hoping whoever won the presidential election in 2016 would also experience some discomfort, that they would be beholden to them in some way, that they would create just the kind of chaos that we've seen in our politics." - Fiona Hill

Did any of you ever even look at the ads that Russia bought during the 2016 election?
 12/03/2019 12:15 PM
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johnnyboy

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But lets be clear, the Russians weren't funneling stolen emails from the RNC, which they did hack, to the Clintons.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 12/03/2019 04:09 PM
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somebodyelse

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But lets be clear, the Russians were peddaling stolen emails from the DNC, which they did hack, because Hillary kept an unprotected server in her closet at her house while she was secretary of state.... She was stupid enough to have a private server in her closet at home, she lost or had stolen three phones during her time as sec of state and the Russians hacked the DNC... HOW THE FUCK DID THEY MANAGE THAT??? It is Hillarys fault the DNC got hacked by the Russians, it is her fault that the Russian and Iranians knew every deal Obama was going to make before it was ever put on the table. Obama got a shit reputation in foreign affairs because his own Sec of State was leaking state secrets like a sieve... the Russians didn't have to hack the DNC, they just logged in with Hillary.Clinton@hilforpres.org password MadamPres#1

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 12/03/2019 04:29 PM
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johnnyboy

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http://www.thedailybeast.com/c...but-didn-t-release-it

The DNC was no more vulnerable than the RNC. The Russians only helped the RNC and when the democrats told the republicans that they had been hacked and that the stolen information was coming from Russia with the request not to use it, the classy family values party said no thank you, and used every bit of it.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 12/04/2019 06:35 AM
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Sniper

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I'm not saying that Russia absolutely did not hack the DNC but I'm keeping an open mind about what may have happened. The same people saying that without a doubt, Russia was responsible for the hack are the same people who were proven wrong by the Mueller investigation.

"We got the forensics from the pros that they hired which -- again, best practice is always to get access to the machines themselves, but this, my folks tell me, was an appropriate substitute," - James Comey

When asked if investigating the actual server would have helped the FBI track down the culprit, the FBI declined to comment.

To this day, however, the intelligence agencies that released this assessment have failed to provide the American people with any actual evidence substantiating their claims about how the DNC material was obtained or by whom. Astonishingly and often overlooked, the authors of the declassified ICA themselves admit that their "judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact." - The Nation (hardly a conservative publication)

Anytime you see anything from an unnamed source, an anonymous source, you have the government saying "just trust us on this one", or anything of the like, you would be wise to proceed cautiously.
 12/04/2019 07:08 AM
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HAPDigital

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Originally posted by: Sniper

I'm not saying that Russia absolutely did not hack the DNC but I'm keeping an open mind about what may have happened. The same people saying that without a doubt, Russia was responsible for the hack are the same people who were proven wrong by the Mueller investigation.



"We got the forensics from the pros that they hired which -- again, best practice is always to get access to the machines themselves, but this, my folks tell me, was an appropriate substitute," - James Comey



When asked if investigating the actual server would have helped the FBI track down the culprit, the FBI declined to comment.



To this day, however, the intelligence agencies that released this assessment have failed to provide the American people with any actual evidence substantiating their claims about how the DNC material was obtained or by whom. Astonishingly and often overlooked, the authors of the declassified ICA themselves admit that their "judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact." - The Nation (hardly a conservative publication)



Anytime you see anything from an unnamed source, an anonymous source, you have the government saying "just trust us on this one", or anything of the like, you would be wise to proceed cautiously.


Yeah, I mean for all we know Fiji could've meddled in our elections. Right?
 12/04/2019 07:13 AM
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3rdworldlover

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Remarkable that it barely even registered in the news cycle, when evidence was released after Roger Stone's conviction, that Trump was informed of Russia's hacking of the DNC in April of 2016, and that Trump lied about it in his written statements to the FBI.
 12/04/2019 07:16 AM
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Cole

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Russia was responsible for the hack are the same people who were proven wrong by the Mueller investigation.

Um, Mueller's report said that Russia hacked the election and that they are still a serious threat.

Seriously, where do you get your news?
 12/04/2019 07:22 AM
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Sniper

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Usually, I link sources. They are the blue letters. Try clicking them.
 12/04/2019 07:48 AM
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3rdworldlover

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Maybe check Page 36 of Mueller's Report?

RUSSIAN HACKING AND DUMPING OPERATIONS .................................................. ...... ............. 36
A. GRU Hacking Directed at the Clinton Campaign ................. .......... ............... ............. 36
1. GRU Units Target the Clinton Campaign .................. . .... . .... . ......... . ...................... 36
2. Intrusions into the DCCC and DNC Networks ................... ................... ............... 38
a. Initial Access .................................... ............................................... ................. 38
b. Implantation ofMalware on DCCC and DNC Networks ................................ 38
c. Theft of Documents from DNC and DCCC Networks .................................... 40
B. Dissemination of the Hacked Materials ................. ......... ......................... ................... 41
I. DCL eaks ........ ............................. ................................. .................. .................. ..... 41
2. Guccifer 2.0 ............ .............. .................. ............. .................................................. 42
3. Use of WikiLeaks .................
 12/04/2019 07:53 AM
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Cole

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1) The link you posted never mentions Ukraine as the culprit, as you have argued.

2) There is a detailed report on the investigation.

http://www.us-cert.gov/sites/d...0STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf

Then there is this from the link you posted.

We have also learned since publication, from longtime VIPS member Thomas Drake, that there is a dispute among VIPS members themselves about the July 24 memo. This is not the first time a VIPS report has been internally disputed, but it is the first time one has been released over the substantive objections of several VIPS members. With that in mind, we asked Drake and those VIPS members who agree with him to present their dissenting view. We also asked VIPS members who stand by their report to respond.

Which brings me to the question: Do you read the links you post?

Edited: 12/04/2019 at 07:54 AM by Cole
 12/04/2019 08:11 AM
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Sniper

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Originally posted by: Cole

1) The link you posted never mentions Ukraine as the culprit, as you have argued.

2) There is a detailed report on the investigation.

http://www.us-cert.gov/sites/d...E-2016-1229.pdf


Then there is this from the link you posted.

We have also learned since publication, from longtime VIPS member Thomas Drake, that there is a dispute among VIPS members themselves about the July 24 memo. This is not the first time a VIPS report has been internally disputed, but it is the first time one has been released over the substantive objections of several VIPS members. With that in mind, we asked Drake and those VIPS members who agree with him to present their dissenting view. We also asked VIPS members who stand by their report to respond.

Which brings me to the question: Do you read the links you post?


Yeah, I never mentioned Ukraine being the culprit. It wouldn't have to be hacked at all if someone had access to the system.

I saw the quote you mentioned. I'm still interested in hearing what both sides have to say.
 12/04/2019 08:13 AM
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Sniper

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Originally posted by: 3rdworldlover

Maybe check Page 36 of Mueller's Report?

RUSSIAN HACKING AND DUMPING OPERATIONS .................................................. ...... ............. 36

A. GRU Hacking Directed at the Clinton Campaign ................. .......... ............... ............. 36

1. GRU Units Target the Clinton Campaign .................. . .... . .... . ......... . ...................... 36

2. Intrusions into the DCCC and DNC Networks ................... ................... ............... 38

a. Initial Access .................................... ............................................... ................. 38

b. Implantation ofMalware on DCCC and DNC Networks ................................ 38

c. Theft of Documents from DNC and DCCC Networks .................................... 40

B. Dissemination of the Hacked Materials ................. ......... ......................... ................... 41

I. DCL eaks ........ ............................. ................................. .................. .................. ..... 41

2. Guccifer 2.0 ............ .............. .................. ............. .................................................. 42

3. Use of WikiLeaks .................


And, the Mueller Report based this on what? A server they never had full access to? Taking the DNC's word for it? Taking the word of a company being paid by the DNC?
 12/04/2019 08:22 AM
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HAPDigital

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Originally posted by: Sniper

Originally posted by: Cole



1) The link you posted never mentions Ukraine as the culprit, as you have argued.



2) There is a detailed report on the investigation.



">http://www.us-cert.gov/sites/d....pdf





Then there is this from the link you posted.



We have also learned since publication, from longtime VIPS member Thomas Drake, that there is a dispute among VIPS members themselves about the July 24 memo. This is not the first time a VIPS report has been internally disputed, but it is the first time one has been released over the substantive objections of several VIPS members. With that in mind, we asked Drake and those VIPS members who agree with him to present their dissenting view. We also asked VIPS members who stand by their report to respond.



Which brings me to the question: Do you read the links you post?




Yeah, I never mentioned Ukraine being the culprit. It wouldn't have to be hacked at all if someone had access to the system.



I saw the quote you mentioned. I'm still interested in hearing what both sides have to say.


I know right? It could be Somalia. I'm thinking maybe it was Barbados but you know it could have been Canada or even Sweden. Our FBI and Intelligence services say it was Russian. But you know, it could be Austria. We'll never know....
 12/04/2019 08:46 AM
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johnnyboy

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This is why I have been questioning Sniper's surfing. He is pretending to have an open mind when an open mind means that he will not accept the conclusion that Russia was and is the culprit based on evidence, the intelligence community's assessment and the indictment of the GRU members specifically. You are supposed to start with an open mind and accept the facts regardless of the direction they take you. You are refusing to accept the facts and stalling at the beginning to avoid the inevitable conclusion as if that's the same. Your "open mind" is really just a refusal to accept facts. You even posted links debunking your own premise and you are always keeping an open mind when the evidence is clearly against the conclusion you stated with and defend with that same alleged open mind.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 12/04/2019 09:13 AM
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3rdworldlover

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Maybe the Democrats/Deep State/Ukraine conspiracy to undermine Trump makes sense. But imagine the foresight they must've had in 2015, especially given the very high likelihood that Trump would be elected if the DNC worked with Crowdstrike and Ukraine and WikiLeaks to make herself look bad, especially in October of 2016. Then, of course the FBI would help her by cooking up the Russia investigation, setting up Don Jr. to meet with their double agent, and setting up Popadopalous, Flynn, Cohen, Stone, Etc. all so she could be vindicated by an impeachment in the House that gets blocked by the Senate, but great for political strategy, brilliant even.
FORUMS : National Enquirer (FORMERLY NSR) : It was never the Ukraine

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