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Topic Title: Go Bernie, , , , , well, , , , , maybe not, , , , !!
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Created On: 01/08/2020 05:42 AM
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 01/08/2020 05:42 AM
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dingpatch

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Fears of Sanders win growing among Democratic establishment
Associated PressJanuary 8, 2020, 5:29 AM EST

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Increasingly alarmed that Bernie Sanders could become their party's presidential nominee, establishment-minded Democrats are warning primary voters that the self-described democratic socialist would struggle to defeat President Donald Trump and hurt the party's chances in premier House, Senate and governors' races.

The urgent warnings come as Sanders shows new signs of strength on the ground in the first two states on the presidential primary calendar, Iowa and New Hampshire, backed by a dominant fundraising operation. The Vermont senator has largely escaped close scrutiny over the last year as his rivals doubted the quirky 78-year-old's ability to win the nomination. But less than a month before Iowa's kickoff caucuses, the doubters are being forced to take Sanders seriously.

Former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, previously a senior aide to President Barack Obama, warned Democrats that Sanders' status as a democratic socialist and his unwavering support for "Medicare for All" won't play well among swing voters in the states that matter most in 2020.

"You need a candidate with a message that can help us win swing voters in battleground states," Emanuel said in an interview. "The degree of difficulty dramatically increases under a Bernie Sanders candidacy. It just gets a lot harder."

The increasingly vocal concerns are coming from a number of political veterans tied to the Obama administration and the 2020 field's moderate wing, including those backing former Vice President Joe Biden, former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg and Colorado Sen. Michael Bennet.

In some ways, the criticism is not surprising.

Sanders has spent decades fighting to transform the nation's political and economic systems, creating a long list of political adversaries along the way. Many people connected to Hillary Clinton, for example, still blame Sanders for not working hard enough to support her after their long and bitter presidential primary feud in 2016. Some Democrats still accuse him of not being enough of a team player.

Sanders' chief strategist Jeff Weaver dismissed the growing criticism as a reflection of the strength of his candidacy.

He raised more money than any other Democratic candidate in the last quarter - virtually all of it from small-dollar donors - and he's considered a legitimate contender to win Iowa and New Hampshire next month.

"People in establishment Washington are terrified of Bernie Sanders," Weaver said. "The truth of the matter is their centrist tacking over the years has led us to the place where someone like Donald Trump can get elected."

Less than four weeks before Iowa's Feb. 3 caucuses, Sanders' critics are making a concerted effort to turn up the volume.

The ranks of the concerned include many Democrats tasked with preserving the party's majority in the House and expanding its minority in the Senate and governors' mansions across the country.

California Rep. Ami Bera, a leader in the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee's "frontline" program to protect vulnerable House members this fall, warned that a Sanders nomination would force more than 40 Democratic candidates in competitive districts - most of which were carried by Trump four years ago - "to run away from the nominee."

Specifically, Bera cited Sanders' signature health care plan, which would replace the nation's private insurance system with a government-run Medicare for All system.

"You have to take Sen. Sanders seriously," said Bera, who has endorsed Biden. "Those are going to be tough positions for our members to run on."

Montana Sen. Jon Tester, who led the Senate Democrats' campaign arm the last time Trump was on the ballot, warned that Republicans "are really good at making elections about who's at the top of the ticket."

"I come from a state that's pretty damn red. There is no doubt that having 'socialist' ahead of 'Democrat' is not a positive thing in the state of Montana," Tester, who has not endorsed any 2020 candidate, said of Sanders. "He can overcome that, but I think it's something he's going to have to do."

Several Sanders critics noted that he has largely escaped intense scrutiny throughout the campaign, in part because some assumed that Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, another progressive firebrand, was a stronger candidate who would cannibalize his support. With Warren's candidacy struggling to maintain momentum, however, those assumptions are now being questioned.

"He has now emerged as somebody who's got the ability to win the nomination," said former Obama aide Ben LaBolt, who isn't aligned with any 2020 campaign but opposes Sanders.

LaBolt seized on Sanders' short list of accomplishments over three decades in Congress. Over that time, the senator wrote just a handful of bills that ultimately became law, though Sanders' camp insists he's effected meaningful change in and out of Washington.

"He's more concerned about shouting in the wilderness to make an ideological point than getting things done," LaBolt said.

Sanders is also facing lingering questions about his age, having suffered a heart attack late last year. He is the oldest candidate in the race, and, if elected, he would be the oldest president in U.S. history.

Former Colorado Sen. Gary Hart, who is supporting Bennet's underdog bid, was reluctant to single out any of the candidates for criticism. But he said Sanders wouldn't be the strongest nominee and suggested it was fair to take Sanders' age into account.

"I think health has become an issue, whether we like it or not," Hart, 83, said in an interview. "I'm older than Sen. Sanders, so I can say things like that. I think it's time for generational change."

Marshall Matz, who was a policy adviser for Sen. George McGovern's failed 1972 bid for president, was more direct in his warning for Democrats. If they nominate Sanders, he said, the party should expect the same landslide loss that McGovern suffered decades ago to President Richard Nixon.

"I think he would not just lose but would lose badly - and I don't think the country can afford that," Matz said, noting that McGovern generated large crowds and enthusiasm just as Sanders has.

Indeed, on the ground in Iowa, there are signs that Sanders is in a strong position as caucus day approaches.

Josh Kennedy, a 36-year-old Sanders supporter from West Branch, Iowa, said he had previously been curious about Warren but hadn't been impressed by her on the campaign trail. He's back on board with Sanders.

"You know exactly what you get with him," Kennedy said.

Sanders drew consistently large crowds as he crisscrossed the state over the New Year holiday. His campaign said he spoke to nearly 6,000 supporters across 16 events, with more than 1,300 people gathered for a Des Moines party on New Year's Eve.

The supporters turned out in rural areas as well.

Tracy Freese, chair of the Grundy County Democratic Party and a Sanders supporter, said she counted around 250 people at the Grundy Center Community Hall for Sanders last weekend, a number she called "incredible."

"To put that many people in a room, in a small red county, for Bernie was crazy on a Saturday," she said.


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Edited: 01/08/2020 at 05:43 AM by dingpatch
 01/08/2020 05:50 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33298
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

Bernie scares them all because he's the only one who's truly on the side of working class Americans. He wants your kids to go to college, not to war.
He wants Americans to not have to live in fear of getting sick, or unable to afford rent when they work full time jobs.

It's good that he scares them. But that said, I fully expect the Dems to torpedo his campaign and re-elect trump.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 01/08/2020 06:05 AM
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johnnyboy

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He's dangerous. The oldest guy has the youngest and widest fan base. Can you imagine the audacity of an old man who has remained consistent since he was a young man and after all these years the establishment likes to point out he didn't change anything. The jokes on them. They didn't change him and he's still here.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 01/08/2020 06:07 AM
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Cole

Posts: 68176
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Fear Bernie? Hardly, to me he would be the ultimate win.

What, do you think Trump will beat him? I don't.

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 01/08/2020 07:25 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33298
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The Dem establishment is more afraid of a idealistic social democrat who threatens their privilege than a shitty Pug who wants to pay no taxes and force women to have unwanted children.
Bernie can cut into trump's poor white working class base, and has solid support from the kids. But is it enough to overcome the center right Dems who will stay home or flip?


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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 01/08/2020 10:53 AM
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dingpatch

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Billionaire Jeffrey Gundlach says the 'biggest risk' for markets in 2020 is a Bernie Sanders win

Julia La Roche Correspondent
Yahoo FinanceJanuary 8, 2020, 10:03 AM EST

Bond investor Jeffrey Gundlach, the CEO of $149 billion DoubleLine Capital, believes the "biggest risk" for markets in 2020 is Democratic presidential contender Bernie Sanders.

Markets are being whipsawed by geopolitical fears, the U.S.-China trade war and whether the world's largest economy can avoid a downturn. However, the bond guru believes the Vermont Senator - a standard-bearer for the political left and a top-tier 2020 contender - is something investors should consider a risk.

"I think it's Bernie Sanders becoming more believed in as a real force, and we have to start taking him more seriously," Gundlach said during his annual "Just Markets" webcast late Tuesday.

Massachusetts Democrat Elizabeth Warren "never rose to that. I was always asked, 'When's the market going to take Elizabeth Warren seriously?' I said, 'Never, because she's never going to really have a chance.'"

Sanders, Warren and former Vice President Joe Biden are among the top tier of Democrats who are jockeying to take on President Donald Trump in November. While there's been some movement among front-runners, support for Sanders - who topped the Democratic field in fundraising last quarter - has remained firm.

"The risk markets and the financial markets broadly will have to deal with the fact that there could be a scare that Bernie Sanders is starting to become a plausible candidate for nomination of the Democratic Party," Gundlach said, adding that he was "most likely" to secure the nomination.

A few years ago, the 60-year-old billionaire investor gained some notoriety for accurately predicting that Trump would win the 2016 election, before the primaries had concluded.

During the webcast on Tuesday, he made a case that Sanders is "stronger than people think." He added that the Vermont senator is "authentic" and that as Warren - who he described as "down for the count" - fades, Sanders will be boosted.

The investor pointed to a recent poll that showed former Vice President Joe Biden and Sanders are "neck and neck." However, Biden is at the top of the leader board on the prediction markets at 42 cents, something Gundlach believes is wrong.

"I seriously do not believe Joe Biden is going to win the nomination. And, so that leads one into a conundrum because Joe Biden seems to be winning on Predictit," Gundlach said. He noted that Sanders has made progress in the prediction markets, while almost all other candidates have declined.

The question, of course, is would Sanders win the presidency?

According to Gundlach, the outcome of the 2020 election would depend "very largely on the economy. He would really need, to push him into a majority position, you would people to be soured even further on capitalism and more fond of socialism as a broad concept," he said.

In an interview last month with Yahoo Finance, Gundlach said that his base case is that Trump will win again in 2020 "if the economy holds together." The billionaire recently put the probability of a recession in the next year at about 35%.

Turning to the markets, Gundlach said his "highest conviction" idea this year is that the U.S. dollar will weaken in 2020.

As such, he favors non-U.S. equity markets and also believes that commodities will do well, noting that he likes the longer-term prospect of gold.

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 01/08/2020 11:16 AM
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RustyTruck

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Ah, here come the capitalists who will try and hold the country hostage. You damn sure better vote for the candidate who serves us! We'll blow this M-Fer up!
They don't want to pay taxes, and they don't mind if americans die without healthcare, go hungry, or live in their cars.



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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 01/09/2020 06:37 AM
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Cole

Posts: 68176
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

Consumer debt exploding, corporate debt exploding, national debt exploding, yet none of this is factored into the health of the Markets. Pretty terrifying if you ask me.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

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I was right.
 01/09/2020 06:52 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33298
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It wouldn't surprise me if they tossed a grenade into the economy if Bernie was elected as a way to try and discredit even the smallest move to level the playing field.
But maybe Bernie can use it as a catalyst to bring back public banking at the Post Office. That would teach them.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 01/27/2020 07:19 PM
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cheaterfiveo

Posts: 5092
Joined Forum: 08/29/2013

yeah cheap honeymoon flights to venezuela and Russia, go get em you country boy wannabe
 01/27/2020 08:30 PM
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fishkller

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LOL Cheater hasn't left that barstool since yesterday..

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 01/28/2020 04:15 AM
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Fish Killer

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Originally posted by: RustyTruck

They don't want to pay taxes, and they don't mind if americans die without healthcare, go hungry, or live in their cars.


Bernie is the exact reason all of those things are happening RIGHT NOW...in California....Chicago.....Baltimore....etc etc etc.

The list is long.

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.
 01/28/2020 05:06 AM
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RustyTruck

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Cheat should love a cheap flight to Russia. All the vodka, corruption, and authoritarianism he wants.

-------------------------
Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 01/28/2020 05:40 AM
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fishkller

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No kidding - I think he is drunkenly revealing his own personal life fantasies on here...

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 01/28/2020 12:19 PM
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tpapablo

Posts: 43826
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I'm certainly pulling for Sanders. I think he'd be a great Dem candidate. What should I call him? Bernie McGovern or Bernie Corbyn? Or Fidel Sanders, perhaps?

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 01/28/2020 01:29 PM
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RustyTruck

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President Sanders will do nicely. Of course we can expect to hear Comrade Sanders a lot as the red baiting gets into full swing from both the center and the right.

You know what they say, feed the hungry they call you a saint, ask why they are hungry and they call you a communist.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 01/28/2020 01:54 PM
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tpapablo

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Feeding the poor with your own resources certainly speaks well of a person. Feeding the poor with other people's money isn't quite as noble. Is Fidel paying extra on his taxes now that he's a millionaire?

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 01/28/2020 03:23 PM
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Fish Killer

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Joined Forum: 10/09/2005



-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.
 01/29/2020 03:53 AM
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Cole

Posts: 68176
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

Originally posted by: tpapablo

Feeding the poor with your own resources certainly speaks well of a person. Feeding the poor with other people's money isn't quite as noble. Is Fidel paying extra on his taxes now that he's a millionaire?


If he was a business failure like Trump, he wouldn't have to pay any taxes at all.



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I was right.
 02/01/2020 04:14 PM
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dingpatch

Posts: 19032
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DNC members discuss rules change to stop Sanders at convention
By David Siders
PoliticoJanuary 31, 2020, 5:31 PM EST

DES MOINES, Iowa - A small group of Democratic National Committee members has privately begun gauging support for a plan to potentially weaken Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign and head off a brokered convention.

In conversations on the sidelines of a DNC executive committee meeting and in telephone calls and texts in recent days, about a half-dozen members have discussed the possibility of a policy reversal to ensure that so-called superdelegates can vote on the first ballot at the party's national convention. Such a move would increase the influence of DNC members, members of Congress and other top party officials, who now must wait until the second ballot to have their say if the convention is contested.

"I do believe we should re-open the rules. I hear it from others as well," one DNC member said in a text message last week to William Owen, a DNC member from Tennessee who does not support re-opening the rules.

Owen, who declined to identify the member, said the member added in a text that "It would be hard though. We could force a meeting or on the floor."

Even proponents of the change acknowledge it is all but certain not to gain enough support to move past these initial conversations. But the talks reveal the extent of angst that many establishment Democrats are feeling on the eve of the Iowa caucuses.

Sanders is surging and Joe Biden has maintained his lead nationally, but at least three other candidates are widely seen as viable. The cluster raises the specter of a convention requiring a second ballot.

If Sanders wins the Iowa caucuses on Monday and continues to gain momentum, it is possible he could arrive at the convention with the most delegates - but without enough to win the nomination on the first ballot. It is also possible that he and Elizabeth Warren, a fellow progressive, could arrive at the convention in second and third place, but with more delegates combined than the frontrunner.

If, on the second ballot, superdelegates were to throw their support to someone else, tipping the scales, many moderate Democrats fear the upheaval that would cause could weaken the eventual nominee.

Conversations about a potential rules change picked up as Sanders ascended in the primary, but they have not gained traction to this point within the DNC.

"There's talk about somehow trying to change this rule at this convention - just casual conversation, and I have participated in it some," said Don Fowler, a former DNC chairman from South Carolina who opposed the DNC's decision in 2018 to strip superdelegates of much of their power in the presidential nominating process. "But I want to be clear that I would not be a party to any effort to do that in the 2020 convention ... It's bad sportsmanship."

Fowler said, "I think it would be not in good faith if those of us who lost that fight in committee would somehow regenerate that fight in a national convention." If they did, he said it would result in "the most hellacious fight you've ever seen at the Democratic convention."

Fowler declined to identify members participating in the conversations, and the DNC itself dismissed the idea.

"[DNC Chairman] Tom Perez fought tooth and nail to ensure our nominee would be chosen by pledged delegates, not automatic delegates," David Bergstein, a DNC spokesman, said in an email. "The DNC passed these reforms unanimously. These rules make our party stronger and help ensure our eventual nominee has the full support of the party behind them."

The decision to relegate superdelegates - now called "automatic delegates" - to the second ballot in a contested convention consumed the DNC for nearly two years after the 2016 election. Superdelegates overwhelmingly sided with Hillary Clinton, infuriating Sanders' supporters.

The rule change was widely viewed as a major victory for the Democratic Party's left flank. At the time, Perez called the delegate overhaul "historic," while progressive Democrats and many moderates lauded its appeal to young voters skeptical of centralized party power.

One DNC member who has advocated for the change in discussions with other members described the effort this week as an "uphill battle."

But the member, who declined to be identified, said the convention body is the "ultimate authority of the party, so the convention body can do anything they want to."

He added, "We haven't had the first vote in the primary yet. Let's see how the panic sets in as this thing progresses."

More likely is a bid to rewrite the rules after the convention in Milwaukee - not for this year's nominating contest, but for 2024.

Fowler said that "there's a great anticipation that after this convention, there will be an effort to adopt the old rules ... There are a lot of people who are interested in that."

Following the publication of this report, Perez responded on Twitter: "Absolutely not. We put in the work to ensure power was returned to the grassroots, we will be following the rules set forth by the DNC. We will not bend on this, we will not change our rules."

And Sanders senior adviser Jeff Weaver, citing the party's "multiyear process to reform the nominating contest," said in a text message that "trying to undo those reforms would be a serious mistake."

Even many vocal opponents of the move to dilute the power of superdelegates after 2016 aren't interested in revisiting the decision.

"My side, including me, we lost the debate," said Donna Brazile, a former DNC chairwoman who sits on the body's Rules and Bylaws Committee. "I don't believe it's wise to re-open a wound once it has healed."

By 2024, she said, the rules will once again be "fair game, just like it was" after the 2016 presidential election. "But right now, we should be comfortable with the process," she said.

Owen, who also opposed reducing superdelegates' influence, said Friday that any rule change now would constitute a "slap in the face to the people who voted to change it."

"I want our team to win," he said. "And the way a team wins is through unity, not through division."

Holly Otterbein contributed to this report.

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Dora Hates You
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