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Topic Title: Socialism In Action
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Created On: 02/25/2020 07:44 AM
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 02/25/2020 07:44 AM
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wtf

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We can give a 2 trillion tax break to those who need it least - (2017) tax cuts

But rail against forgiving 1.6 trillion break on student debt (proposed) to those that need it most

#dotardlogic

That my friends, is socialism for the rich in action. And you dotards are truly fucking idiots under the thumb of an oligarchy...

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trump - putting the 'con' in conservative
 02/25/2020 08:09 AM
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tpapablo

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My man, you don't do socialism any favors. So keep posting.

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I :heart; Putin

 02/25/2020 08:11 AM
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Greensleeves

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Thumbs up wtf!

The change is coming. As long as the GOP clings to it's current disgusting set of fake values they will bleed voters.

Can you imagine an educated society? The obese sheep bleating at a trump rally would be hard to find. Well unless you go to the confederate flag draped aged.



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Edited: 02/25/2020 at 08:18 AM by Greensleeves
 02/25/2020 08:12 AM
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RustyTruck

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Private profits, but socialized losses. "Too big to fail" is code for an economy held hostage by gamblers, and you'd best pay off for them if they lose or else.

As Bernie said, socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

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If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
-Emma Goldman
 02/25/2020 08:12 AM
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SurferMic

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To the OP...what does that mean to everyone who borrow tens of thousands and every month for DECADES paid it off (as painful as it was). I do not agree w/ student loan debt forgiveness. Millions, struggled and paid it off...It sucked and caused financial pain especially early in life, right out of college/Master Programs...I'll forgive student loan debt, IF those who did pay their Student Loan Debts IN FULL, regardless of the strife it caused get all their payments back as well. Can't have it both ways.

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 08:16 AM by SurferMic
 02/25/2020 08:27 AM
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Greensleeves

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How about this? All older people pitch in to stop climate change and stop running up the deficit?

Young people are getting hosed on the environment and the deficit and they can't get a break on college debt?

I'll bet the ROI on better educated people is better than the ROI on funding the military industrial complex.

Our society will be better with better educated people.

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Edited: 02/25/2020 at 08:28 AM by Greensleeves
 02/25/2020 08:32 AM
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tpapablo

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Originally posted by: Greensleeves How about this? All older people pitch in to stop climate change and stop running up the deficit? Young people are getting hosed on the environment and the deficit and they can't get a break on college debt? I'll bet the ROI on better educated people is better than the ROI on funding the military industrial complex. Our society will be better with better educated people.
Clayton, you going to vote for the old white guy? This is turning out beautifully. Could be better than 2016, which I didn't think would be surpassed in my lifetime.

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I :heart; Putin

 02/25/2020 08:38 AM
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RustyTruck

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I'm always disappointed when I hear someone who's been through a struggle and survived refuse to help those who are facing the struggle in real time.

It's a sad reactionary take. Why should we improve anything in our world?

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If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
-Emma Goldman
 02/25/2020 08:59 AM
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tpapablo

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If you think socialism helps out the strugglelers, you'd best review your history. Capitalism has helped more people than any other system by a large measure. Communism has caused the killing of far more people. So it has that going for it. Now, due to my capitalist ways, I'll have plenty of food if the Corona virus apocalypse comes about. I would be happy to share some with some of you if you are struggling, you included Rusty. Better for society that Darwin takes out some of these guys though.

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 02/25/2020 08:59 AM
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Greensleeves

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For sure Rusty. Real change requires sacrifice.

Take tspank for example. He sacrificed his reputation, intellect, reasoning skills, and any chance with a decent woman by accepting completely the doctrine of an ignorant obese racist conman from New York. Granted his cause is for the most part disgusting and will be short lived but he's all-in. Props to gramps. Zero respect but props.

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Edited: 02/25/2020 at 09:44 AM by Greensleeves
 02/25/2020 09:18 AM
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wtf

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Originally posted by: SurferMic

To the OP...what does that mean to everyone who borrow tens of thousands and every month for DECADES paid it off (as painful as it was). I do not agree w/ student loan debt forgiveness. Millions, struggled and paid it off...It sucked and caused financial pain especially early in life, right out of college/Master Programs...I'll forgive student loan debt, IF those who did pay their Student Loan Debts IN FULL, regardless of the strife it caused get all their payments back as well. Can't have it both ways.

Perhaps some sort of tax credit. Or perhaps tough luck.

Just because things were a certain way in the past, is not a viable argument against changes to make things better.





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trump - putting the 'con' in conservative
 02/25/2020 09:20 AM
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wtf

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Originally posted by: tpapablo

My man, you don't do socialism any favors. So keep posting.

Point is, we could somehow afford 2 trillion to those that do not need it (remember, supply side economics has never worked, much like socialism) but cannot afford it for that most need it.

#dotardlogic

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trump - putting the 'con' in conservative
 02/25/2020 09:56 AM
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SurferMic

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Ugg!! guess I should stay out of NSR and just do surf reports, No one forced anyone to borrow Student loans, you got them you pay them back. I work with a Cuban Immigrant who borrowed a ton of $$ to go to FIT, he is slowly becoming a legal citizen. He works M-F and has a second job on the weekends, his wife works nights at a basic call center that I do not think you even need a high school education to work at. She takes care of the kids in the day. He talks about the conditions in Cuba, no Food, no jobs, no climate control living, going to bed hungry every night. One egg and some flour was a big deal for getting through 1 day of meals. He gladly pays his student loans (and bills) because he has lived a life most will never know...Ask him about student loan foregiveness..it's called Pride and stepping up and taking care of your responsibilities that you incurred...I see it in him, he never complains...Maybe those students didn't need a smart phone w/ unlimited data and a apt with AC...He surely didn't and only sought to better his life and families through working harder than most ever would. I would love to see his reaction if you said to him "Perhaps some sort of tax credit. Or perhaps tough luck." Man, I don't know you, but I do not think you really know what tough luck in this world really is/was/can be for some. It's how you overcome it that makes you who you are, NOT...."wipe the slate clean, we are sorry you have to pay for something you choose to do".

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 10:07 AM by SurferMic
 02/25/2020 10:14 AM
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wtf

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Originally posted by: SurferMic

Ugg!! guess I should stay out of NSR and just do surf reports, No one forced anyone to borrow Student loans, you got them you pay them back. I work with a Cuban Immigrant who borrowed a ton of $$ to go to FIT, he is slowly becoming a legal citizen. He works M-F and has a second job on the weekends, his wife works nights at a basic call center that I do not think you even need a high school education to work at. She takes care of the kids in the day. He talks about the conditions in Cuba, no Food, no jobs, no climate control living, going to bed hungry every night. One egg and some flour was a big deal for getting through 1 day of meals. He gladly pays his student loans (and bills) because he has lived a life most will never know...Ask him about student loan foregiveness..it's called Pride and stepping up and taking care of your responsibilities that you incurred...I see it in him, he never complains...Maybe those students didn't need a smart phone w/ unlimited data and a apt with AC...He surely didn't and only sought to better his life and families through working harder than most ever would. I would love to see his reaction if you said to him "Perhaps some sort of tax credit. Or perhaps tough luck." Man, I don't know you, but I do not think you really know what tough luck in this world really is/was/can be for some. It's how you overcome it that makes you who you are, NOT...."wipe the slate clean, we are sorry you have to pay for something you choose to do".


Why not? Why give 2T tax break to the people who least need it when we know SSE does not work?

Proven fact - a well educated society is one lower in crime - huge savings right there.

Plus we need Dr's. The cost of school today is not even in the same universe of what it cost even 20-30 years ago. And we are seeing results of this now. It is why NYU is now offering free tuition for GP Dr's.

Also, it would be hugely beneficial to the economy, and therefore you, to erase student debt.

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trump - putting the 'con' in conservative
 02/25/2020 10:37 AM
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scombrid

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Need to make college more affordable like it was when I went to school and when Dad went to school. That requires returning state funding to what it was back then. It would also help if loans weren't given out like candy so kids can live like they are at the Ritz when they go to state school. Administrators need a serious hair cut. They cost to much. State school was a spartan affair back in the day, even the good ones like W&M and UVA. Now Christopher Newport College is CNU and has gigantic fancy buildings and cushy dorms that cost $$$$$$$$$ to maintain. Calculus is still calculus but it costs 100X more to learn at CNU than it did at the old CNU.

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 02/25/2020 10:40 AM
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jdbman

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How about resetting the student loan. Reset the interest rate. Reduce everyone's' balance by say 30% or so. If you missed out in the past, that is unfortunate. Perhaps you could get some additional tax credit. It is so Trump like to say something like: If I cant get it no one can.

Epic rant there Green!

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.
 02/25/2020 10:41 AM
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scombrid

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On the issue of the massive corporate tax cuts that have ballooned the debt at the apex of a growth cycle without creating proportional amount of production and jobs? Those supply-side trap chickens are coming home to roost soon. The bloated capital markets are chasing their tails right now looking for safe places to "park" their money and not investing in growth/production. Just a short time away from them stuffing the money in mattresses and tanking the economy. Government is massively in debt which reduces the available levers to counter the coming recession. Smart people pay down their debt when income is good so that they can carry a little more debt when there is a cash flow shortage. Well, GOP does exactly the opposite. It is coming.

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 02/25/2020 10:45 AM
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RustyTruck

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Originally posted by: tpapablo

If you think socialism helps out the strugglelers, you'd best review your history. Capitalism has helped more people than any other system by a large measure. Communism has caused the killing of far more people. So it has that going for it. Now, due to my capitalist ways, I'll have plenty of food if the Corona virus apocalypse comes about. I would be happy to share some with some of you if you are struggling, you included Rusty. Better for society that Darwin takes out some of these guys though.


Nope. Capitalism is a system of plunder and exploitation. How many natives died as European capitalists spread across north America? How many Africans died after being kidnapped and forced to work for free in the South? How many South Americans killed by CIA supported right wing death squads?

Authoritarian regimes of all kinds have butchered people, but libertarian democratic socialism is the way of the future and the only hope to avoid global disaster.

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If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
-Emma Goldman
 02/25/2020 10:48 AM
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scombrid

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Easy loans distorted the market for college. Now state school is so expensive it is out of reach of the commoner without incurring unreasonable amounts of debt. I think that is part of the intent of the oligarchy. Trust fund kid gets med school paid for. Starts banking money straight out the other side, further building the wealth he started with. Poor kid has to borrow to go to med school. Can't build much wealth until the debt is paid off round about age 40. By then the good years of life are over. He probably had to put off having kids till 40 so he'll be sending them to college when he is old himself. A women in that position may not breed at all. She may be 35 or 40 by the time she pays off the debt and decide that is far too old to risk pregnancy. Merica. You are a plebe? Don't bother with higher ed unless you want to be saddled with debt till you are past your prime. Go into the mines straight out of school and shut up if you know what is good for you.

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 02/25/2020 10:53 AM
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SurferMic

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WTF....You ever taken a surf trip to Costa Rica? I never have, couldn't afford it, I was too busy paying off student loans....ever bought a new surfboard from a shaper or off the store rack???...I never have, I worked in a surfboard factory (H2O Glassing, Garden City SC) and got my boards by the bro deal of running other worker's boards through and not charging them my part of the process...I got lucky and my work takes me to world class surf zones in the Pacific and Caribbean for weeks at a time. I guess we will have to agree to disagree...was fun hanging out in the NSR world, wish a viable third party candidate would come out of the shadows (Gates?) but I don't feel the "Bern" (and I have hippy roots...weird). Which reminds me... Bob Weir and Wold Brothers keeping the Dead's music alive this weekend in Orlando, got some cheap tickets in the upper deck of the Carr Center..looking forward to an intimate setting with some bone shaking music.

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 10:57 AM by SurferMic
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