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Topic Title: "I HOPE that Hydroxychloroquine Wins"
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Created On: 04/05/2020 07:28 AM
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 04/06/2020 02:08 PM
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RegularJoe

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Originally posted by: tpapablo

No one dies from trying this. At worst, it doesn't help. Doesn't make it worse or anything.


In particular, the cardiac aspects are serious. Anyone with an arrythmia like atrial fibrillation (AF) or atrial flutter (AFl) is more susceptible to bad stuff.

Chloroquine, and also Z-pack (which some trials are using together) both have the tendency to cause "QT prolongation" (lengthening the duration of the Q-R-S-T) portion of the cardiac cycle. Excessive lengthening can lead to a rhythm called "Torsade de pointes" that can be fatal unless treated immediately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsades_de_pointes

Many patients with AF or AFl are already on rhythm control drugs that can also prolong QT unless they are always dosed and administered correctly.

The combination of all 3 (chloroquine, Z-pack, and an antiarrythmic) is classified as an extremely MAJOR interaction risk.

In general, most docs now know this, and the study-related articles I've seen also reflect this, but there are cases where it could slip through the cracks.


Tpap is correct about the length of clinical trials. Nothing is likely to be "definitively good" any time soon. When you're breaking new ground, the trend is for anecdotal evidence and "related evidence" to provide ideas for clinical trials, and that's pretty much where we are now.

As of last night, the WHO website listed 306 trials getting underway to address COVID-19. Some sound pretty whack, but at least they're running in parallel and may yield useful results faster than a serial approach.

I would go deep with a Hail Mary if I were that deep in the woods.


Edited: 04/06/2020 at 02:16 PM by RegularJoe
 04/06/2020 02:13 PM
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Cole

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Originally posted by: RegularJoe

Originally posted by: tpapablo



No one dies from trying this. At worst, it doesn't help. Doesn't make it worse or anything.




In particular, the cardiac aspects are serious. Anyone with an arrythmia like atrial fibrillation (AF) or atrial flutter (AFl) is more susceptible to bad stuff.



Chloroquine, and also Z-pack (which some trials are using together) both have the tendency to cause "QT prolongation" (lengthening the duration of the Q-R-S-T) portion of the cardiac cycle. Excessive lengthening can lead to a rhythm called "Torsade de pointes" that can be fatal unless treated immediately.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsades_de_pointes



Many patients with AF or AFl are already on rhythm control drugs that can also prolong QT unless they are always dosed and administered correctly.



The combination of all 3 (chloroquine, Z-pack, and an antiarrythmic) is classified as an extremely MAJOR interaction risk.



In general, most docs now know this, and the study-related articles I've seen also reflect this, but there are cases where it could slip through the cracks.


In short, even if it does work, it's not going to work for everyone.

On the true medical side, there are already some positive results coming out of medical labs. Let's hope one is the real deal.

 04/06/2020 02:23 PM
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RegularJoe

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Originally posted by: Cole
In short, even if it does work, it's not going to work for everyone.


That's true of a lot of therapies. In this one, researchers think they are seeing different patterns of response related to obesity, age, and possibly even blood type.

Herceptin, a miracle drug in the breast cancer world, was almost abandoned because of unpredictable results. It wasn't until researchers discovered the subtle differences between receptor positive/negative aspects of different breast cancer cells they they identified the right recipients for it.

When targeted to the right patients (with the right type of tumor), it works very well. There might be a similar scenario with the coronavirus. I've heard of 8 different (but still very similar) strains of the virus. Researchers would do well to identify it to that level when possible.


On the true medical side, there are already some positive results coming out of medical labs. Let's hope one is the real deal.


Indeed!
 04/06/2020 02:32 PM
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all3

Posts: 2249
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Originally posted by: RegularJoe
Originally posted by: tpapablo No one dies from trying this. At worst, it doesn't help. Doesn't make it worse or anything.
In particular, the cardiac aspects are serious. Anyone with an arrythmia like atrial fibrillation (AF) or atrial flutter (AFl) is more susceptible to bad stuff. Chloroquine, and also Z-pack (which some trials are using together) both have the tendency to cause "QT prolongation" (lengthening the duration of the Q-R-S-T) portion of the cardiac cycle. Excessive lengthening can lead to a rhythm called "Torsade de pointes" that can be fatal unless treated immediately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsades_de_pointes Many patients with AF or AFl are already on rhythm control drugs that can also prolong QT unless they are always dosed and administered correctly. The combination of all 3 (chloroquine, Z-pack, and an antiarrythmic) is classified as an extremely MAJOR interaction risk. In general, most docs now know this, and the study-related articles I've seen also reflect this, but there are cases where it could slip through the cracks. Tpap is correct about the length of clinical trials. Nothing is likely to be "definitively good" any time soon. When you're breaking new ground, the trend is for anecdotal evidence and "related evidence" to provide ideas for clinical trials, and that's pretty much where we are now. As of last night, the WHO website listed 306 trials getting underway to address COVID-19. Some sound pretty whack, but at least they're running in parallel and may yield useful results faster than a serial approach. I would go deep with a Hail Mary if I were that deep in the woods.
Way too factual, making too much sense, not political enough but thanks for the important info. 3/5

-------------------------
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 04/06/2020 06:55 PM
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cheaterfiveo

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Originally posted by: Cole

Originally posted by: RegularJoe



Originally posted by: tpapablo







No one dies from trying this. At worst, it doesn't help. Doesn't make it worse or anything.








In particular, the cardiac aspects are serious. Anyone with an arrythmia like atrial fibrillation (AF) or atrial flutter (AFl) is more susceptible to bad stuff.







Chloroquine, and also Z-pack (which some trials are using together) both have the tendency to cause "QT prolongation" (lengthening the duration of the Q-R-S-T) portion of the cardiac cycle. Excessive lengthening can lead to a rhythm called "Torsade de pointes" that can be fatal unless treated immediately.







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsades_de_pointes







Many patients with AF or AFl are already on rhythm control drugs that can also prolong QT unless they are always dosed and administered correctly.







The combination of all 3 (chloroquine, Z-pack, and an antiarrythmic) is classified as an extremely MAJOR interaction risk.







In general, most docs now know this, and the study-related articles I've seen also reflect this, but there are cases where it could slip through the cracks.




In short, even if it does work, it's not going to work for everyone.



On the true medical side, there are already some positive results coming out of medical labs. Let's hope one is the real deal.

if you were sick; I suppose you wouldnt try it because trump is trying to bend the curve, help the world and dont take it when you get sick


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 04/07/2020 06:12 AM
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Cole

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if you were sick; I suppose you wouldnt try it because trump is trying to bend the curve, help the world and dont take it when you get sick



Sick burn bro! Did you hire a screen writer for that one?
 04/07/2020 06:55 AM
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tpapablo

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For normal people, let me point out something that will show you what this is about. Note that the exact same people who are arguing against chloroquine are the ones who were vociferously arguing for the use of pot. Pot, of course, hasn't been tested for anything. So why are they so against this drug on the basis that it hasn't been tested? Because they don't want a drug to solve the problem. They want to maximize the death toll so as to get rid of Trump. That is how sick these people are. Don't vote for these crazy sickos.

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I :heart; Putin

 04/07/2020 07:00 AM
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HAPDigital

Posts: 10131
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Originally posted by: tpapablo

For normal people, let me point out something that will show you what this is about. Note that the exact same people who are arguing against chloroquine are the ones who were vociferously arguing for the use of pot. Pot, of course, hasn't been tested for anything. So why are they so against this drug on the basis that it hasn't been tested? Because they don't want a drug to solve the problem. They want to maximize the death toll so as to get rid of Trump. That is how sick these people are. Don't vote for these crazy sickos.



Tpap, please show where I am an advocate for pot. Please post a link. I'd love to see it.

Tpap is so caught up in his lies and fabrication, nothing new here. Typical clown work...

-------------------------
Trump is responsible for the death of over 100,000 Americans in just a couple of months.
 04/07/2020 07:03 AM
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Cole

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Originally posted by: HAPDigital

Originally posted by: tpapablo



For normal people, let me point out something that will show you what this is about. Note that the exact same people who are arguing against chlorine are the ones who were vociferously arguing for the use of pot. Pot, of course, hasn't been tested for anything. So why are they so against this drug on the basis that it hasn't been tested? Because they don't want a drug to solve the problem. They want to maximize the death toll so as to get rid of Trump. That is how sick these people are. Don't vote for these crazy sickos.






Tpap, please show where I am an advocate for pot. Please post a link. I'd love to see it.



Tpap is so caught up in his lies and fabrication, nothing new here. Typical clown work...


Not only that, but nobody is saying that we shouldn't try Chloroquine, we should, but we shouldn't be focused on it, considering it isn't a cure.

 04/07/2020 07:04 AM
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Greensleeves

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it's the lawyer in him. Paid liar once, now it's just his natural state

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 04/07/2020 07:06 AM
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HAPDigital

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Originally posted by: Greensleeves

it's the lawyer in him. Paid liar once, now it's just his natural state



LOL he is not a lawyer


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Trump is responsible for the death of over 100,000 Americans in just a couple of months.
 04/07/2020 07:21 AM
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tpapablo

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Winning post there, folks.

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I :heart; Putin

 04/07/2020 11:10 AM
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all3

Posts: 2249
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Originally posted by: tpapablo For normal people, let me point out something that will show you what this is about. Note that the exact same people who are arguing against chloroquine are the ones who were vociferously arguing for the use of pot. Pot, of course, hasn't been tested for anything. So why are they so against this drug on the basis that it hasn't been tested? Because they don't want a drug to solve the problem. They want to maximize the death toll so as to get rid of Trump. That is how sick these people are. Don't vote for these crazy sickos.
Cannibis has been used by billions of people for thousands of years with very little detrimental side effects. I hope this drug works miracles for the coronavirus. But investigate further. There are people who don't want to take it even for it's anti-malaria properties due to side effects. And the Zpack is no different, look up C. diff.

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"
 04/07/2020 11:47 AM
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Pagerow

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Originally posted by: HAPDigital

Originally posted by: Greensleeves


it's the lawyer in him. Paid liar once, now it's just his natural state



LOL he is not a lawyer


He might be referring to tpap's boyfriend
 04/08/2020 06:34 AM
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tpapablo

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Just wanted to get in one more shot at the progs before this thread drops off of the front page. Two lessons here. First, progs are stupid. Second, they are more than willing to see their fellow Americans die to get at Trump. Very despicable people.

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I :heart; Putin

 04/08/2020 06:44 AM
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scombrid

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Originally posted by: tpapablo Note that the exact same people who are arguing against chloroquine are the ones who were vociferously arguing for the use of pot.
Nope. I have always been a critic of those that claim pot is some kind of miracle drug and that it is perfect because it is "all natural". I have written on here more than once that most of them are just users that are trying to rationalize their recreation by making out like pot is something special. Anyway, I was skeptical of the early claims about chloraquine because people were making out like it was going to be some kind of covid panacea. I still am skeptical on that front. The first study linked was an open study that didn't offer up controls and had too small a sample size. Now that there are a lot of parallel studies running we are getting a picture of how it may work and also where its limitations are going to be.

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 04/08/2020 06:47 AM
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scombrid

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Still waiting for the pot advocacy links.

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...

 04/08/2020 06:49 AM
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RegularJoe

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Of course, we wouldn't have those studies running now if some whacko hadn't first thought to step outside the box and give it a try.
 04/08/2020 06:50 AM
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HAPDigital

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Originally posted by: scombrid

Still waiting for the pot advocacy links.


Funny thing is, for a surfing sight, you'd think you would see a lot of it. I don't think I've seen one pro pot post.

Tpap just winging it as usual.

-------------------------
Trump is responsible for the death of over 100,000 Americans in just a couple of months.
 04/08/2020 06:56 AM
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tpapablo

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Haha. Trying to change the subject now. They were advocating against a life saving treatment solely because Trump was pushing it. What scum. PS. You find your own pot links, you lazy bastards. That's not my job.

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I :heart; Putin

FORUMS : National Enquirer (FORMERLY NSR) : "I HOPE that Hydroxychloroquine Wins"

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