At the time of this post the current casualty count is 19 dead and over 50 wounded from a suicde bomber targeting people leaving an Ariana Grande concert

Man... targeting kids and young people

Awful tragedy.

Blowing up kids. Those are some real men.

Bunch of pussies.

-------------------------
I was right.

Proper British Response


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Maybe if we give them jobs, a good education, or let them govern themselves they will become more civilized. [sarcasm intended]. Some people believe this http://www.nydailynews.com/opi...orse-article-1.3185752

That was a pretty smart article.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Committed by the "brown people" that progs cherish  and want to bring here by the millions. In other words, these jerks want to endanger our people in order to pick up a few votes. That is how depraved and anti-American these people are.

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I :heart; Q

Time for the nuclear option followed by several hundred precision SEAL hits.

-------------------------
Replace turf grass with native plants that don't need irrigation and synthetic fertilizers or chemicals that can go into our waterways and ocean

Terrorism is a tactic of the desperate. Isis is losing its Caliphate and becoming increasingly isolated. These suicide bombers cost nothing and they get the headlines. The attack succeeds when the knee jerk reaction is to tar all muslims with the same brush, that of the religion of hate, or radical islamist terrorist. UK made a point of showing Muslim doctors working on the injured and reminded everyone that Manchester is actually 9% muslim. They underscore what Tpap and obnox and cranky cannot accept, that you will not use this specific example to generalize terror murder to all members of a faith.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Muslim doctors? What does that prove? That some Muslims do what they are paid to do. Hate to tell you, but that's not meaningful in any sense. What is meaningful is that a Muslim blasted the hell our of innocents and American progs want to bring that over here as soon as possible.

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I :heart; Q

nonsense.
meaningful to you perhaps, but still nonsense.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

My point exactly. Progs don't give a damn if Americans are killed by Muslim terrorists. If they get the Muslim vote, they are more than happy to sacrifice the lives of Americans. One of the reasons that Trump won. And it wasn't a small reason.

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I :heart; Q

Doubling down on the nonsense doesn't make it make sense.
"American progs want to bring that over here as soon as possible" is an evil nonsense lie.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

don't let murdered children get in the way of your virtue signaling

no let's use them to ramp up the fear so that thousands more can die.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

It always gets worse before it gets better

Refusing to identify the problem and take action will drag this on forever

I request two bullet points.

1. State the problem in one sentence.

2. State the solution in one sentence.

Keeping in mind that the last London attack was by a British citizen born in Kent of the name Adrian Russel Ajao and that this attacker was as likely as not also a British citizen.

-------------------------
...

1. Islam

2. Islam

2 is not a solution.

Solution requires a verb.

What do you want to do about Islam?

 

-------------------------
...

-------------------------
...

This attack doesn't change who these people are, what they want or why.
They will never get tired of the tactic. It will get worse the more they lose.

They want these attacks to change us, they only win when we let them.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

what is your long game?



I'd say letting terror become part of everyday life is letting them win

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London

 

Terror attacks have been pretty damned common in London for awhile now.

 

 

 

 

-------------------------
...

The root of it all is Israel, need to find a path to real peace & justice there.
Also need to keep helping the Iraqis beat ISIL.

Tell me how you would stop it.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

It might be reasonable to say the root of it all WAS Israel, but like a cancer that has metastasized, the root doesn't matter once the disease is everywhere.

In particular, consider that the Boko Haram radicals in Africa and the Abu Sayyaf terrorist in Asia don't give a rat about Israel and never will. Their goals are purely subjugation, power, and control.

I'm pretty sure if Israel were wiped off the map today, they would all simply celebrate and say America is next. We'll never get anywhere without good, outspoken, moderate leadership in the Muslim world, and action on their part to back it up.

Exactly.

People have a very hard time understanding that you cannot change the mindset of those clouded by religious zealotry. You can try to reason with them, argue with them, fight with them, and even kill them and they will still not change their mindset. Sure some actions harden that mindset, but absolutely nothing external will soften it. The only way to change that mindset is to destroy it, either by killing each and every one of them or unraveling the very foundation of their beliefs.

The only practical thing that can beat radical Islam is other Muslims. The responsibility is theirs and theirs alone because anything anyone else does only makes the problem worse.

That does not mean that the rest of us should lay down and show our belly to radical islam, in fact, that is the exact opposite of what we should do. To these extremists that only shows weakness and gives them opportunities to exploit. This too will make the problem worse (much worse). No, as counter productive as it may seem, you have to hit them with fucking hammer for every transgression. Overwhelming force is quite literally the only thing they will respect. Keeping hitting them and hitting them until they stop moving... and then hit them again for good measure.

I know it is hard to accept for some people, but they (radical/extreme fundamental Islamics) do not look at life the way you and I do. They do not think the way we think. Their priorities are not the same as ours. You cannot appeal to their sense of decency or to their humanity or to compassion. We are different, we are enemies of their faith, and they want to kill or subjugate each and every single one of us just because we exist.

Nobody wants to lay down and role over. Of course the radical Islamists aren't going to change. Fundies of any stripe are lost for good.

The trick is to stop the virus of the mind from spreading. Stop doing things that turn people sympathetic to the Islamists.

Adrian Russel Ajao was not born and raised as a fundy. External conditions made it appealing to him.

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...

It is too late for that and the problem is too widespread.

Radicals don't listen to moderates.

 

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...

I wasn't suggesting the moderate leaders get radicals to listen to them.

What needs to happen is that moderate leaders need to convince moderate citizens that extremist behavior is not acceptable, and get those moderate citizens more involved in ratting out the extremists among them.

The leaders, being the people in power (notably of a semi-theocracy in most of the ME) need to say, "this sort of extremist behavior against people of other faiths and beliefs us un-Islamic, and therefore constitutes apostasy, for which you can be punished up to and including death."

And then follow through with it. Laws and leadership. They can't keep turning a blind eye toward the madrassas and terrorist training camps in their midst.

They should publicly defile and desecrate any memorial artifacts that exist in the name of those 19 hijackers who perpetrated the 9/11 massacre, as well as have their leading Imams, theologians, and any other respected religious leader make it clear people who commit these acts wind up in a hell full of pig-feces rather than paradise.

exactly

I was pointing something out about what he said and how it actually supports keeping Muslims out all together rather than supporting letting them in.

Nowhere did anyone mention anything about changing the constitution in this country.
- miker

You can't do one without the other fucktard. That's what WG was pointing out.

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I was right.

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I was right.

You sure make something as easy as the internet look hard. You are cross posting and quoting from another topic and different discussion and trying to make it relevant to this one. Granted, that fact might fly right over the head of a few of our more mentally challenged posters, but anyone even paying a little attention with half a brain will simply realize you are an idiot.

You want to talk about that, then let's discuss it in the actual conversation where that was said.

No, you are just a prick that only sees in black and white.

You hang on the fence when it suits you, then flow with the opposing tide when someone half agrees with you. Always the prick. Always the opposition.

Was the killer in Manchester a practicing Muslim? You don't have any fucking idea, nor do you care. You've have your black and white narrative and you have to stick with it.

What to be a man and have a real discussion, then answer the questions posed and quit glossing over things that don't fit into your pompous, pea-brained world.

-------------------------
I was right.

lolz stay tuned for todays addition of YOU ARE WRONG...  by guess who?

I'll tell you what's wrong. Flying on the ground is WRONG! -- Guess Who?

Could anyone be any more WRONG!

Based on what was public knowledge at the time of these posts, it appears he was.

What we know

Yeah Cole, I see shit as black and white. That is why I have been telling both the left and right extremes that they need to be more moderate and open to compromise for years on these boards. My black and white view is also why I have been telling people for years on these boards that there all-or-nothing attitude on issues is counterproductive and only serves to hurt the nation, create division, and stagnate the government....

You are just mad because I called out your nonsense. You want to have a conversation about something then jump into the one already being discussed instead of trying to take an entirely different subject out of context and cross post it in. That is some serious rookie shit and something you of all people shouldn't be doing.

Really Cole, you can barely read and understand what people are posting as it is now. Most of the time you start reading something, your mind wanders, and rather than try to actually understand what is being written you just make it up as you go along. I mean I was calling you out on it regularly for a while but you are just a lost cause.

Mr Fence Sitter.

I don't vote for mainstream candidates. I am different. You are all sheep and I am the outsider. Just call me the rebel! lol

The reality? You voted for a two term Republican governor in the last election. He was about as outside as Newt Gingrich.

When the conversation is about mass murder, all mass murders are included in the conversation. It's all terrorism.

When you talk about banning people from entering the country, the Constitution has to be added into the conversation, because the two go hand in hand.

The same for the courts; they look at the whole picture, not just one slip of paper.

My mind doesn't wander, it's two steps ahead. You are just too blinded by the current idea in your brain to keep up.



-------------------------
I was right.

Since this seems to be what all the cool kids are doing:

WRONG 0/5

I did post 3 days ago in this very topic that the UK media was calling him a radical Islamic terrorist.

Like most of us, I have no idea what his attendance record at his local Mosque was and am forced to rely on public releases from their government, eye witness reports, and multiple media outlets. I was paying attention, but it looks like you weren't.

Again.... no fucking shit there captain obvious but that wasn't the discussion being had. You are bandwagonning on something that wasn't even part of the discussion until he jumped into the middle of it.

I know reading and comprehension isn't your strong suit, but go back to the beginning and try to follow the conversation being had before running your cock holster about stupid nonsense.

use techniques that have success in japan and poland

play defense, don't let risky people in the country

Those are very different places than America. Little Immigrant history nor promise.
But I have no problem with better screening of people coming in. We are already pretty good at it.

Won't solve the problem though, most of the worst acts are from natives or people already here. I think the guy that did this one was British.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

I think that resolving the Israel problem, 2 state, 1 state, whatever, will go a long way toward making it possible for moderation to arise in the Arab world.
Too bad our President just spent a day kissing the asses of the worst example of the opposite of moderation and freedom over there.

I also think that the export of terror to the west (vs all of that other stuff you mentioned) is more driven by the forced creation and continued existence of a undemocratic western state in the middle east.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Granted, some solution with Israel will go a long way, but it can't involve the destruction of or weaken the security of Israel.

In reality even AQ and ISIS in the ME directly are now more about subjugation, power, and control of a Caliphate than they are about Israel. Hezbolla and Hamas and the PLO remain the semi-impotent, regionally-active antagonists in the Israel issue.

Those truly concerned about Israel are involved in a very specific territory dispute. AQ, ISIS, Boko, and Abu don't care -- they are driven to spread their influence everywhere, and are citing their religion to justify whatever means accomplish it. Sadly, that genie is already out of the bottle and not going back.

In short, we can't do anything about it. If we are passive, they will react with violence. If we are violent, they will react with violence. It is completely up to the good Muslim people of the world to kill this ideology.

How many of these is it permissible to kill for each terrorist killed?

 

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...

Why would anyone want to kill a non-radical muslim?

I think its clear at this point this was a follower of radical Islam and affiliated with ISIS.

How many points of contact did he have with law enforcement, and others that were cause for concern?

fucker's travel pattern was very suspect. Beaches of Libya for spring break?

Seems that in most of these type of attacks there is some previous concern about the perp.

I know profiling is a concern, but this just isn't the same as a white cop stopping a black guy on the turnpike for having a tail light out.

-------------------------
So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

How about this fine display of progtard cowardice...and you progtards get upset because we would like to stop them from coming here. Whats your plan? Just let them all in and get used to the terror, becaues god forbid, we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings...lol

According to BBC Anchor Katty Kay, Europeans have to get used to terror attacks like the Manchester bombing.

Kay told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Tuesday that Europeans have no choice but to get used to terrorists murdering their families because “we are never going to be able to totally wipe this out.”

“Europe is getting used to attacks like this, Mika. They have to, because we are never going to be able to totally wipe this out,” Kay said.

“As ISIS gets squeezed in Syria and Iraq, we’re going to see more of these kinds of attacks taking place in Europe and Europe is starting to get used to that.”

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/23/bbc-anchor-we-have-to-get-used-to-terror-video/

Yeah I agree completely. For the sake of security and safety, I really think it is something that has to be compromised on. Not only in Europe either, but here at home as well. Like it or not, this is the world we live in now.

You said that the radicals cannot be changed.

I agree with that.

What then are the "good Muslim people of the world" to do?

-------------------------
...

I also said this:

The only way to change that mindset is to destroy it, either by killing each and every one of them or unraveling the very foundation of their beliefs.

The radicals cannot be unravelled.

You isolate them as best as possible and wait for them to die out.

Or you behave in ways in which the radical mindset spreads through recruitment.

Throw people in a ghetto and treat them like shit. Some of them will want to blow shit up.

Indescriminantly blow up half a country. People that previously wished you no ill will are going to want to kill you.

 

-------------------------
...

You are making a pretty strong case to keep Muslims out all together.

Should we link arms with these "good Muslim people" in a common cause or relegate them to a ghetto of suspicion and hatred with no civil liberties?

I don't know what they are supposed to do about the radicals that isn't common to the rest of us. The radicals view them as infidels. They certainly can't preach the radical out of the Islamists. That has about as much effect as an atheist trying to do the same.

-------------------------
...

Mike, so you served in a Muslim country. Your job was to what, kill Muslims or protect Muslims from other Muslims?

What would the reaction of the average US citizen be it there was a giant Iraqi military base just outside of Dallas or Atlanta or Los Angeles? Do you think the US citizens would resent them or welcome them with open arms?

The fact that you can't see the relation to politics and extremism is mind boggling to me.

-------------------------
I was right.

 

its miker, wtf are u expecting? then again, you are easily mind boggled, cole. a lot of folks... are not.

Of course you must realize that I never said that or even implied it. You shouldn't feed this madness of his with your lame troll attempts.

WRONG

 

WRONG

 

NO U

0/5

 

What would the reaction of the average US citizen be it there was a giant Iraqi military base just outside of Dallas or Atlanta or Los Angeles? Do you think the US citizens would resent them or welcome them with open arms?

The fact that you can't see the relation to politics and extremism is mind boggling to me.                                                                                            

 

 

 

This is a culture of people who are still fighting about things that happened in the year 632

They have been killing each other for 1400 years.

The muslims expansion to include parts of Europe,

The Crusades,

thier being driven out of Europe in 1492,

The collapse of the Ottoman Empire and WW1

Europes infighting in dividing up Muslims countries...

1953... 1953 the first time America intercedes in the middle east...

1340 years of extreamism without Americas involvement and 60 years of American intercession... Your Blindness to the history of violent extreamism in the middle east is mind numbing??? That you blame America shows that you don't know shit about what is really happening in the world. It does show that your political opinions are badly formulated to coincide with Liberal policy wonks and that you blithly repeat lies that your masters have indoctrinated you into.

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I believe America was involved in WWI that region

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

I believe America was involved in WWI that region                                                                                           

 

 

I looked for that and can't find any evidence for your belief.

Can you elaborate or show anything to substantiate that?

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Well no fucking shit Cole. I never said that there was no relationship between the two ...obviously there is. Please point out where I said otherwise.

Stop fabricating things and injecting them into conversation .... and actually read what people write.

Good analogy, every time we "accidentally" kill civilians we become more and more radicalized American terrorists to those peoples families....good, bad, or indifferent


-------------------------
I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

I can't agree with that as it is literally written. I think I get what you are trying to say, but it falls apart when you are trying to compare US Military carrying out orders and killing innocents on accident with radicalized terrorists who target and kill innocents with intent and purpose.

bomber's parents were Libyan refugees

no, appeasing islamists will not stop islamists, they win either way

So the bomber was British. Of course he was you Faux news watching dopes. Go on Faux's FB page and read the posts from those idiots. "the travel ban this" and "bomb the hell out of them that" (which we are)

Almost all of the attacks in Europe the last several years were carried out by persons born and raised in Europe.

Assimilation is powerful tool in curbing domestic threats. It's the bigots like Tspank and Ted Cruz that want to assure that Americans that are Muslim are discriminated against to the point that they are isolated from the good of our culture.

How about this, social media and the internet definitely play the part of recruiter in exposing would be terrorist douche bags to radical ideas. I say censor that $hit!

parents were Libyan refugees

Who fucking cares where he was born? The UK Media is calling him a radical islamic terrorist.

His parent were from Libya. Again, who fucking cares.

The "muslim ban" proponents.

-------------------------
...

Those for it can make the case that he never would have been in the country had his parents not been allowed in.

Those against it will say, look guys his birth certificate says Manchester!! Keeping them out does no good. SEE!!!

Edit: It doesn't change the fact that he is a radical islamic terrorist according to the UK media.

.....Guess the UK treated him so bad that he went off the deep end.

if they aren't going to weed them out themselves how are we supposed to tell the difference?

So you want to amend the constitution?

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Who are you talking to?

"You are making a pretty strong case to keep Muslims out all together. "
Not constitutional.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

No shit, really?

I was pointing something out about what he said and how it actually supports keeping Muslims out all together rather than supporting letting them in.

Nowhere did anyone mention anything about changing the constitution in this country.

I mentioned it. Donald has hinted at it.
The point is that keeping all Muslims out, as Donald proposed, as other nations might do is not a possible solution for America, nor the UK, thus it's pointless to talk in those terms.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Umm, cool?

As I said, these losers want to let these people flood in and kill Americans. If they get 10 more dem voters, it is worth 100's of American deaths to them.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

I mean you are basically saying that it isn't enough to bring in refugees and immigrants from war-torn shit holes, save their lives, and give them opportunity ....but you have to put them on a pedestal and kiss their ass to keep them from going nuts and blowing up innocent people.

this is beautiful

Miker and Johnny Reb having a hard time linking things together but not unusual. Yes he was British and why does that matter? There are 3 million Muslims in the US now.

Probably should have put that alt right a-hole on a pedestal and he wouldn't have stabbed that black kid in Maryland right Miker? Or that douche that killed the people at the church in Charleston.

Muslim bans are rhetoric for dim wits.

I perfectly understood what you are trying to say but it is not fucking relevant at all to what I was saying about radical Islam. That is why I responded to you the way I did. Looks like you are having a hard time linking things together and following along.

Greenie, you seem semi-coherent at the moment. I just want to take this opportunity to ask you what your plan is for dealing with ideology so radical that people strap explosives to themselves and walk into a place full of children and young adults and blow them up?

nothing, it's just part and parcel

Pipe dreams

All cyber access to info on radicalism (to include domestic) helps these douches so our NSA should be bolstered and block as much of that crap as they can.

Probably have to keep all the Patriot Act privacy infringements going strong. Allow for data gathering on private phone calls with parties outside the US. Pretty much keep all the stuff we have in place in place.

The laws regarding hate crimes and crimes of discrimination must be followed and prosecuted.

Freedoms stressed to children. Pledge of allegiance recited in elementary school classes.

P.S. Snowden is a traitor not a hero.

Except I didn't and you making the font bold, italic, and larger doesn't change that.

They are braver than you.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Catching guys like this doesn't require travel bans nor religious profiling.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Right. The way you would stop it is to invite hundreds of thousands of them in.

And you guys wonder how Trump won.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

"hundreds of thousands of them in"

British citizens? No one wants limeys. They'll take all the chimney sweep jobs!

Apparently you forgot his parents were refugees