Update: Dec 2021 Ended up having an additional surgery. Two level Artificial Disc Replacement by Dr. Masson in Orlando. see latest post for details

Update: Dec 2019. 90-95 % Recovery. minimal invasive surgery performed by Dr. Razack in Orlando. No pain or issues. Maximum medical recovery at this point. See latest post for details.

Update: November 2017 progressing well. see my latest post for details

Update: April 2017 had surgery just over two months ago. see my latest post for details

So last week - a few days before leaving for El Sal I woke up one morning with an excruciating pain in my back and shoulder - radiating down through my arm as far as my wrist - sometimes it would feel like an electric shock going through my arm.

Along with this my back/shoulder and pectoral muscle would spasm uncontrollably.

Went to a Chiro and she sent me to get a neck and shoulder MRI. Long story short - shoulder is fine, but 4 herniated discs in my neck are pinching my spine and causing all the pain in my right arm and shoulder.

Last week I got two chiro adjustments, a homeopathic shot, and a cervical decompression.

All of which did, nothing, NOTHING, for me. It got so bad I checked myself into urgent care the night before my flight to el sal and got a scrip for painkillers and prednisone.

I have been told that I need to give the chiro some time, and go for multiple treatments, etc. But I really need some immediate relief, but I don't want to be taking these pills - or spending money on some hocus pocus that's not going to work.

I know many of you have had similiar maladies. I Would really value your opinions, experiences you have had with various treatments, medical professionals in the area.

thank you!

Edited: 03/02/2024 at 09:36 AM by nsbkook

Pm

-------------------------
http://www.passmorept.com/blog/?page_id=50

I blew C3-C7. Over the door traction unit and epidural cortisone injections let be delay surgery for 4 years. Had an artificial disc put in in the level causing most of my symptoms as well as jamming into my spinal cord... Still have 3 bad discs but I am pretty much gtg most of the time.

Dr. Alvarez, Melbourne. Pain Management.
Recommend "Radio Frequency Lesioning."

Good luck.

Pain meds work. That's the problem. If some are good, more are better. Very dangerous. Many people have started where you are and ended up junkies. Please be careful.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Depends on the pain meds because nerve pain can be tricky. A normal pain killer might not touch it but an opioid or something that acts similarly will. NSAIDs wouldn't touch my pain at all, I got more response from ice and tramadol. However, once the referral pain became the bigger issue, NSAIDs were fine... Along with muscle relaxers and heat. 

 

Constant balancing act. Ice for the inflammation and heat for the muscle issues that resulted.

Right before a surf trip, that sucks! I guess you are the cameraman. Good luck with managing your pain.

random advice, not a Dr of course but Ice it 10 mins every hour , no longer than 10 mins! (PT told me this) and try to do it as much as you can each day/night.  That will keep the pain/inflamation down until you can see a real Dr, MRI is the only way to really kinow whta is going on and what a treatment should be...again just stupid internet advice, but ice was the best painkiller for my spine injury. Simply ICE (Ice-packs).  Good lUck, get it fixed quickly do not suffer/push through it..

Ice makes the inflammation better in the spine, but makes the muscles issues in the surrounding area worse. Heat does the exact opposite. It is a tricky balance.

Spend $30 on the over door cervical traction unit. Start slow with the weight/time and work up to 15 minutes with full weight. Apply heat to your neck and shoulder muscles first. Do neck stretches after (McKenzie stretches worked for me well)

 

 

 

I'm a disabled vet, I've been doing chiropractic since the early 80's and acupuncture since about '88 or '89. I have been doing ONLY upper-cervical chiropractic for about 15 years with great relief, plus NO popping, cracking or violent twists, jerking etc. Upper-cervical chiropractic, Space Coast: Dr. Renee Hahn, 1600 W. Eau Gallie Blvd Suite 104 Melbourne, FL 32935 Ph: 321-622-4447 If you are in Orlando, this is my doctor, Jack Lynady DC, I have been seeing him since 2000, usually only 3-4 times/year or when I'm really tweaked. He is a very dear friend, has my surf art photography (printed on fine art exhibition canvas by me, 20"x30") displayed in all his rooms, he is a lifelong surfer too! http://jacklynady.com/ Don't forget acupuncture, it too is a great pain reliever. there are several on the Space Coast. If you are near Orlando my acupuncture physician is 3rd generation Chinese, his parents both taught Chinese medicine at university in China. He does 3 treatments, needles, or needles and electric stimulation, then cupping OR hot compresses with fresh herbs and then finishes with the BEST Tui Na massage EVER, total treatment time is about 90 minutes/per visit for only $50! Dr. Huo: 6972 Aloma Ave, Winter Park, FL 32792 Ph: (407) 312-9169 The other great pain reliever for me is floatation tank therapy, floating weightless in about 900 lbs. of epsom salts for an hour. Almost everyone is magnesium deficient due to modern farming practices and the standard American diet (S.A.D.) While both magnesium and sulfate can be poorly absorbed through the stomach, studies show increased magnesium levels from soaking in a bath enriched with Epsom salt! Magnesium and sulfate are both easily absorbed through the skin, our largest organ! My pain relief from floating lasts around 10 days to 2 weeks! Here is Float tank therapy on the Space Coast (Orlando has two, East Coast Floats and Total Zen Float) Souler Float: 1694-A West Hibiscus Blvd Melbourne, Florida (321) 591-9005 http://www.soulerfloat.com/

-------------------------
Life is a garden*Dig it!

If you have or start to have weakness in your arm or shoulder get a neuro's advice quickly, the muscles will quickly atrophy and if you wait too long they will not recover! This is from experience when workmans comp refused to grant surgery in a timely manner (c3-6).

-------------------------
Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

Glad to hear you have had good experiences with some alternative therapies. I've tried float tanks before and really enjoyed the experience. Sounds like perhaps it's time to do it again.

I had a cupping done when I was in China last month - I preferred the Thai massage more

I'm also a vet, wonder how far back this herniation goes and if I could get some disability rating out of it?

Thanks everyone for all your advice.

Regarding pain meds - I really haven't been taking enough to completely eliminate or even have more than a minor effect on the pain and sharp tingling. So I think that's a good think. I don't want to become dependent on them.

I'm going to look into the over the door neck traction thing. And will be contacting some of the folks that have PM'ed or that have been mentioned.

Yes, this sucks being on a surf trip and not surfing much, but I guess that's why the family is with me on this one - and at least we're doing other things together while I walk around with my arm and neck in a weird contortion all day.

I had some similar issues recently. Mine was from a superiorly subluxed first rib impinging on the brachial plexus nerve bundle. A PT friend of mine also recommended doing these exercises and another variation on it where you push your chin back and thin up. The effect is that it pushes the "disc jelly" or "disc peanut butter" as it were back to the front. Many years of leaning your 10+ pound bowling ball head out over it's balanced axis leads to the jelly pushing out the back and impinging on the nerves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6laUgST9yE

Good luck. I know some muscle therapists here in town that can also help with some of the resulting muscle pain and tension. www.thefixtherapy.com


-------------------------


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

I have 3 bulging discs and 1 herniated nucleus in my neck, and 3 bulging in my lower back.... And a 50% rotator cuff tear..... I feel your pain .....I only use the Mcenzy method now, no pain meds.... It works wonders if you fully commit to it!!

-------------------------
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

thanks again folks. I just tried paddling out this morning and it wasn't just no, but hell no. I think I could have fought through the pain on my way out, but a nagging voice in my head kept telling me if I make it out and my arm gives out, then I'm really f*cked. So now I'm sitting in el salvador being so cranky I don't even want to be around anyone.

See a neurosurgeon promptly when you return , I'm a surgical PA and work with most of the guys here in Orlando. Here are three guys from three different groups all great spine surgeons : Dr Razack , DR Masson , Dr Sawin . start with which ever one can fit you in , all very busy practices . Good luck don't wait.

Edited: 08/09/2016 at 11:13 AM by TAK

Have to be careful with a chiropractor if you don't know what your exact situation is. Glad yours at least sent you to get an MRI done. In my situation if I would of went to one who didn't do the that I may have been screwed. I had a jagged osteophyte jammed into my spinal cord on the level that was ultimately replaced with an artifical disc. The chiropractor has its place, but is some situations it can make things much much worse.

My significant other is a personal injury attorney - so she has relationships with some medical professionals in the field - what I call her 'hired guns' She insisted the chiro write me a referral for an MRI before anything else.

Good on her.

Better on you for listening. Heh

To everyone out there. I went through all of this many times and have 2 double fusions in my neck and a triple fusion in my lumbar. One third of my spine is fused and I have MS. Don't get depressed, PLEASE! We had a guy on here years ago that had fought through it all and was slowly coming back, when the depression just overcame and he ended his own life. I know it sucks sitting on a nice beach watching waves roll in. Try reading a classic or researching a topic you've always been interested in. Remember, everything happens for a reason. There is a season for everything in life. You have to take your time with conservative treatments; no sudden jerking, wrenching motion on the chiro, slowly build your weight, reps, tension whatever the treatment is that works for you. Ice and heat have been my best treatment also. It's okay to use meds, that's what they are for. Be careful who you discuss meds with, there are some desperate folks out there. Muscle relaxers and Lyrica seem to do very well for me. You will miss swells, parties, trips, etc.and at times it will feel like the world is zipping by and you are just watching. Friends will leave and even relatives will distance themselves. If you get any settlement, tell no one; it's for your future medical care. You might be thinking this is all gloomy and dark. Well. it can be, and it did kick the crap out of me when I had to use a walker for a few months. I changed my diet and life has slowed down, but now has much more meaning to me. I've read a lot of books and studied many subjects. I've become a more complete person than before. I can surf a couple 2 hour sessions a week. Don't miss the opportunity to grow. Hope this helps.

-------------------------
Peace, Love and SOUL!

Guess I wrote too much, I had spaces in the above reply. Sorry about the eye strain.

-------------------------
Peace, Love and SOUL!

Yes. it feels like a shock extending down the back of my arm - not quite to the tips of my fingers but definitely to my wrist/forearm.

I will PM you.

I have been living mith multiple disk issues in my lumbar spine for 5 years now. From my experience, don't push it, drink lots of water, stay away from salt, sugar, and alcohol. Once the pain subsides, start working to strenghing the muscles in the surrounding area and make sure to eliminate any muscle imbalances (especially near the injury). Oh, and pracitce good posture. I sincerely hope you feel better soon.

you need some CBDs, brother.  good effect would be amazing for you - life changing in such a positive way.   There is a CBS vial with 75 drops for $40-50 in Ashland, Oregon at several of the outlets - rec available.  On drop a day, or maybe less.  like 275% concentation CBD, and less than .5% THC (barely detectible). 

Sad thing - in Florida such a simple solution is a life ruining felony risk trying to find it.  And if you travel to the sources you can't bring it back here - this is such an F'd up situation we allow our medical community to force on us so we run to them.  2 hours to colorado or 4 to oregon will help out, brother.  

-------------------------

it's never too late to have a happy childhood...

Edited: 08/14/2016 at 09:02 AM by TONYlookaround

I have two herniated discs in my neck... whenever they bug me, I do the eagle pose (google it)... I don't cross my legs or bend my knees; great stretch for the muscles aggravating my discs

nsbkook, PM sent.

-------------------------
Life is a garden*Dig it!

............Kratom works good for pain and energy to work long hours ask a 90yo Asian fisherman, they have taken Kratom for 2000yrs. Just mix it in ur water bottle, but measure carefully w scale. And don't buy from head shops. Mail order in bulk only. Try Trans-Pacific World Botanics. They are also called Speciosa Pro. Out of Corvallis, Oregon. It does have side effects of constipation so try prunes and stay loose. many have stopped pain med by using Kratom. Just get the ground powder in bulk. I spent 60 bucks and got a bulk sack that lasted a month recently. just mix in water. measure well.start w 1 gram. Wait 45 min. When ur tolerance builds can mix 3 or 4 grams in water bottle but take it easy that should last for the day almost and drink water bottle 1/3 or even 1/4 if the batch is strong. You can drive play music work what ever job on it just dont over do it. a good batch is strong at 2 grams, real strong, Overdose means having to rest an hour or so and some mention throwing up but I just take a 45 min lay down and only over did in. 3 times or so in 20 plus years. A 3 Gram dose of good batch will put you on the couch for a few hour wishing you had half that dose then you would have been rocking . you may have to repeatedly email them to start. They don't seem to seek a lot of new clients. But once your in they will ship with a photo copy of a U.S. Postal money and stamp envelop even before u mail it they will ship. Plus free samples every order of different stains. It's legal in Florida but not Tenn. example don't drive it to other states or countries without checking. Oddly Its grown in Indonesia and largely illegal. It's like a cup of coffee and a few pain killers if u get a good batch. good luck. Trust me it works.

Re Kratom:

Try a smaller dose mixing it with grapefruit juice, it potentiates bioavailability.
This works.
sciencblogs

But be careful, there is potential for dependency with that stuff, it is an opioid receptor agonist.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

RE: Chiropractic, my Doctor, http://jacklynady.com/ does the most complete and through X-ray work-up you've ever seen! Upper cervical is a real science and he takes dozens of X-rays from many different angles before he begins treatment. nsbkook, RE: V.A. Disability, I'm sure you have a good shot. I used the D.A.V. instead of VFW or an attorney. Sending you a PM

-------------------------
Life is a garden*Dig it!

Update - I had another radiologist look at my MRIs. His findings were much more alarming than the radiologist from NSI. He stated that one of my cervical herniations is significant - impinging 50% on my spine - which is causing the buzzing sensation and pain in my arm. He said I need to see a neurosurgeon right away and look into surgery - and he practically never recommends surgery. He also stated that one minor accident or impact to my neck right now and I could end up paralysed.

Recommended not going to the chiro because one wrong adjustment and I could end up paralysed too.

He also found a labral tear or what he said is commonly called a SLAP tear in my shoulder - that may or may not need surgery.

Now - he works for personal injury lawyers almost exclusively - so he's paid/conditioned to say the sky is falling. But what he said about my neck did scare me.

I am trying to get in to see Dr. Masson asap.

I also went to florida pain institute and they recommended an epidural steroid injection.

Herc on this thread has been doing some PT exercises with me which has been helping. And I bought one of those blow up cervical decompression neck pillow type things.

I haven't been taking any chemical painkillers, because they don't work for me anyway, but the kratom has been working really well.

Dang Steve, that sounds terrible.  My friend had the same diagnosis, he had herniated cervical discs and his doc said one slip up and he could wind up in a wheel chair.  He had surgery.

yep. that's exactly what this radiologist said.

Way back when, , , , when we first met Dr. Paine, , , , my wife had been dragging her right leg around at The Cape and KSC for a couple months; the NASA clinic types were treating her for a "sprained hip" and giving her Bengay. Dr. Paine got the MRI's and X-rays done and called her in ASAP. He told her the same things about possibly being paralyzed. Surgery it was. The next morning, bright-and-early, I was in her room when he came in. She was "out of it" from the surgery and pain meds. He told her to get out of bead and stand for him. I interjected a ", , , ,what the hell, , , ,". She got out of bed and swayed around a bit, standing pretty good on her right leg. He said something to the effect that ", , , , that's good, , , ,". Outside of her room I asked him what all of that was about, , , ,? He told me that he was worried that she would not be able to use her right leg, after all of the disc and nerve damage he saw during surgery.

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

The most advanced, highest possible positive outcome therapy is a new proceedure called Prolothearapy. Look up Prolothearapy and Prolothearapy for your specific condition.  It usually requires three sessions at $1K per session, but the outcomes speak for themselves; stronger than before the injury.

Here is a site locator for prolothearapy:

http://www.getprolo.com/florida-prolotherapy-doctors/

And exactly how is that going to restore the shape/volume of the disc and move it away from his spinal cord?

 

Yikes!

My neck's been imaged a few times, once at the emergency room; fortunately nothing needed to be done, but it's certified ugly.  Best wishes.  

The only hope I can offer is that aging necks and backs tend to look awful, and function reasonably well anyway.  That's something that good specialists know from experience, of course.

I am sorry to say you need to do the research on this and contact the MDs who perform this procedure with the link I provided previously. I am not qualified to answer your questions. 

Prolothearpy works. I refferred an acquantance/friend who is a Physcian Assistant for over 35 years and MDs come to him for MD advice; he is that good at what he does. When his back got messed up similar to the conditions you have described, I recommended he researched the Prolothearpy treatment. With his medical background, he chose this proceedure. His situation was so severe they had to use somekind of hyperbaric chamber therapy to prepare him for the prolotherapy in order to take pressure off the spine so that the rejuvination process would have a higher level of success. I have not seen him in a little over a year because we moved, but last I spoke to him, his back was completely restored to full strength and greater than 95% manuverability.

 

pm sent

-------------------------

we are they, they are us -- Thich Nhat Hanh

dang... didn't get to read it all but i will say, good luck dude

-------------------------
hey, i don't know if you read this yet ----------> I <3 16streets.com

thank you Sean O'hare

Delicious beer comes from here

I have a surgery consult with dr Masson in Orlando next month. That's the earliest I could get in.

man, that's terrible.... sorry to hear it.  but in the meantime, did anyone suggest / reccomend passive strengthening / motion exercises to help maintian the back&core muscles that support your spine?

planks, pool, etc.....

HERC4810 has been coming over and doing some PT sessions with me, and has shown me some exercises to do on my own time.

Good luck. Stay safe. Posture posture posture. Hope to see you in the water after surgury.

-------------------------
http://www.passmorept.com/blog/?page_id=50

Why 'Useless' Surgery Is Still Popular

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

The problem with a fusion is that it will end up screwing up your spine just above and just below those segments. Why? The spine is meant to flex and bend and distribute load, and stopping that only transfers extra load to the adjacent segments.

This is why, when surgery cant be avoided, that artifial discs are a much better option. You can relieve the pressure on the nerves, maintain the flexibility and load bearing ability, restore segment height, and prevent any cord damage by removing material compromising it.

Not to mention, the recovery is vastly faster and easier. I was in the water on a longboard as soon as my stitches were removed. No big or heavy waves allowed, but was cleared up to chest high medium period swell by Dr. Masson for 8 weeks and no heavy lifting or overhead lifting.

After that, I was able to work back up slowly to full load and was pretty much back to normal ...minus the numbness, pain, and strength loss by week 12. Compared to 6-9 months for fusion.... cake walk.

thanks for sharing that info!

Good info. Thank you!

thanks!

I am still not 100% in favor of the surgery - but I think it would be prudent to have a surgeon's opinion so that's why I have the consult.

We're going to keep doing the PT sessions though - they've been the most helpful of anything so far.

Not sure how far you want to drive, but Dr Cutler here in Tampa works on all our operators out of USSOCOM, and all have returned to Jump status.  My neighbor across the street had a fusion of 4 in his neck, and hes returned to jump status.  he is treating my 3 herniated discs in my lower back ( one is blown out) I havent went for the knife yet, but if you wanna give him a call to see what he says. hes the best around here  good luck dude

thanks Sgt! I've got my fingers crossed for this minimal invasive procedure I have scheduled.

My pain has gone away and right now my main concern is getting the strength in my tricep back. I did a test yesterday and my right tricep has 25% of the strength of my left. I understand that getting the strength back is going to be a long slow process.

On a related note, the neuro said one of my herniations appears to have happened a long time ago. I had a few feet->ass->head landings when I was on jump status. Thinking of seeing if I can get a minor disability rating from the VA on account of that.

sucks , it is sthe old injuries they fix through surgery that take FOREVER to heal, if your S1 is mangled it will re-gen but takes so long...not to be a bummer but to anyone out there don't wait, get the kmife sooner than later or it just reduces the success rate/ takes much longer to be '"normal" again when you put it off....Missed Super Swell Sandy because of waitiing and long recovery....one of my regrets in life

I have the first of three 'cervical epidural' procedures next week.

What has anybody's experience been with them?

You would think a big needle going into your spine would hurt, but after the local....no pain at all. 

Best wishes and, of course, keep up activity/therapy as possible.

It will most likely give you some much needed relief. Did they explain the procedure at all? 

I've seen them done in the interventional radiology suites where they use real time flouro-imaging to precisely deliver the medication into the epidural space so that it can 'bathe' the spinal cord. The patients seem to get a lot of relief from the injections, but it is transient and not forever-lasting. They will numb you up and maybe give you some benzos to calm the nerves. 

It's a very common procedure and I hope it gives you the relief you need until you can see your surgeon. Good luck! 

 

I had a couple in my neck after a car accident, and to be honest, they didnt really do shit..... the only thing that really helped was PT and ice, which I still need to do on occasion 6 years later

 

in regards to the surgery article, I know this is about your neck, but a big part of the article was unneccsary knee opps:

The meniscus in both my knees are pretty shot, and I've had surgery on one.

I wiill say that it was no miracle worker, but it definitely helped.  Mine was from an acute injury and there was shredded meniscus getting caught in my knee joint doing damage. They couldnt repair (pretty torn, and 40 yrs old) so they trimmed it out.  I saw the arthrosope photos before and after....  basically cleaned out and smoothed up to prevent more damage (and I couldnt even surf at the time so)  but seeing my dad with 2 knee replacements, being proactive was in the back of my mind

 

The epidural shots worked for me and let me delay surgery for like 4 years until I got worse. Your situation doesn't seem like it will delay surgery as much as it will help with symptoms until you get it.

Look forward to helping with exercises more when you get back in town. Take care of your posture when flying.
Glad to hear symptoms are slightly better.
Let's not let this weakness progress.
Some one said it correct earlier, the injection can masks the symptoms but never does it chnage any structural issues.

-------------------------
http://www.passmorept.com/blog/?page_id=50

latest update - ;

After seeing a few chiros, doing some PT exercises, the pain in my shoulder and arm has dropped to about a 3. However I still have the constant buzzing feeling going down my arm to my fingertips and serious weekness in my right arm. to the point that I cant' even do one pushup, and have trouble pulling a t-shirt over my head. that's where my conditioon was when I had my first cervical epidural last week.

I don't think the epidural did much of anything. I didn't have much pain going into it - I still don't but I still have the same level of buzziness and lack of strength.

I have been doing some arm/shoulder exercises on my own, and I have an appointment with Dr. Masson in two weeks. I'm looking for a proper fix before my arm muscles wither away to nothing.

Keep up whatever the PT suggested.  I had a surprisingly long recovery a few years ago from nothing more than persistent trapezius muscle spasms, which were surprisingly disabling.  As in getting a t-shirt on.  Move the shoulder and arm around as much as possible.  Me, I've got to return to PT type stuff for my repaired left shoulder, which is still kind of stiff.  

My painful swollen foot may not have been so much infection (which could have been serious) as gout (no scallops, cut the red meat, avoid alcohol and fructose).  It was a really disabling kind of pain.  

 

For what its worth, after 5 months of a persistent and irritating pain in my neck, I threw down a 20 for a inflatable cervical collar from Amazon.  After a week of using it for 30 minutes a day I have full mobility, no pain and the snapping and cracking have almost stopped.  Besides that night in San Salvador, it was the best $20 I ever spent.

I had two separate consultations with a neurosurgeon - Dr. Masson - in Orlando this week. He is recommending a two level artificial disc replacement and considered it serious enough that he put me at the front of his line. I could get this done as early as next week.

According to him: Although I don't have any arm pain, the tingling sensation in my arm extending to my fingertips and the significant muscle strength loss in my right tricep warrants the procedure.

Regarding the muscle strength. I can do 10 reps of single arm triceps extensions with my left arm holding a 25 pound dumbbell no problem. with my right arm I can't do one rep with a 5 pound dumbell.

He doesn't feel any of the more conservative treatments I've tried is going to help, and said that the longer I don't address the nerve damage the more long term or permanent my muscle weakness will be.

I've never had any surgery before, and frankly the thought of it scares the hell out of me. But if that's what I need to do I will do it. I could use some support from surfers that have had positive surgery outcomes right now.

PM'd you.

In addition to that PM, he is spot on about the nerve damage. The longer you wait, the more likely it will be that you won't get as much back. Once I got back to full activity and full load after my disc replacement, it took a couple of months for my dominate right arm to catch up to my left. Who knows if I had waited longer.

Good luck to ya man. A 55-year old friend of mine had lower back surgery last year to fix nerve problems, and he's now back up to running half marathons.

My two shoulder surgeries were a relative piece of cake. No worries about anesthesia, that's for sure. They asked if I was ready, and then I woke up.

Just be patient with the recovery/rehab. Stick with it, but don't overdo it, and don't get carried away with pain meds afterward.

Sorry to hear about your issues, seen this thread the past month or two, and read through it this am. You said you basically jus woke up one morning and this issue had begun. So have you had prior issues in this area before that morning and it suddenly got worse one morning. Wondering , not that it really matters at this point, if you or any of the specialists had been able to pinpoint or conclude what the initial cause(s) of these cervical issues? Have you had some type of trauma to that area? repeditive motions ? Bad posture ? etc.

I'm 46 ,prity fit and trim and like alot of people I deal with common sore neck and shoulder issues, which have seemed to get better since I've gotten back in the gym, never any trauma to the  spinal region. I believe most of my issues are related to a lifetime of head forward hunch shoulder poor posture in and out of the water. Commonly associated with sitting on a surfboard for hours on end, not to mention all the paddeling, I do notice icreased discomfort in that area after long surfs.. I have become more concious over the past years ,by sitting more forward center on my boards so I'm able to sit more up right and keep a more natural curve in my back and neck as I sit and wait, instead of the more common look,sitting rear of center and nose up ,and hunched, that I had done for years . Just curious on your lead up to now, for miy and others awareness . Good luck with your surgery and rehab ,Godspeed to you.

Edited: 09/28/2016 at 08:50 AM by irie

Unfortunately from what the doctors have told me - that a lot of the time with these herniations the initial event doesn't cause anything noticeable at first, and then, like me, it just starts being a problem one day.

they did notice that I must have had some sort of 'event' that caused one of the most evident herniations some years ago. But I can't pinpoint any particular accident that may have caused it.

I've had many accidents but always brushed myself off an walked away - parachuting, auto accidents, totaled a motorcycle, skateboarding and surfing falls.

And I work in I/T so I'm slumped over my laptop or phone all day, which doesnt help..

The inactive work may be a part of it.  I'm coming out of weeks of being shackled by a swollen, painful foot that was treated with antibiotics, so no activities that might worsen an infection.  Now that I'm resuming activity, it's obviously going to take some time to get back to normal, whatever that is by now.  The kneeling chairs that were a fad 20 years ago might help.  I forget why I got rid of mine.  

I made a standup desk for my home office out of a little stepstool that I place on my kitchen counter. anything to avoid sitting all day.

this is working for me OK

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Yes, the muscle weakness will continue to worsen. In a year, you won't even be able pick your nose with your right arm.

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

To judge from WG's link, desks have turned into camels.  They kneel, unlike horses.

I'm reaching the age of being permanently under repair.  It's becoming obvious that I need to work on my right arm, daily, or it'll never get entirely back to full operation.  

 

 

Oh boy! ! don't scare me like that! Your making that "gnawing in the back of my mind" fear come true.

Yep check-- BMX, skating, surfing, mtb, and cliff diving (a dive gone wrong most memorable known point of injury)
Yep check-- I/T in front of 3 monitors on phone all day.

Last year or so more pronounced pain in the thoracic vertebra. Point of injury from the gville quarry cliff diving incident.


Momma said "your gonna feel the way your treating your body one day"

So I'm extremely wary of chiropractic work making that point of injury worse. I.e."cracking your back".

Anybody had the issue of chiro work making disc issues worse? Trying to "realign"??



-------------------------
Time and tide wait for no one.....

Edited: 10/02/2016 at 05:59 AM by KP

Hey @nsbkook I work for a neurosurgeon, Dr. Ara Deukmedjian, in Viera at the Deuk Spine Institute. If you haven't seen anyone for an eval yet shoot me your number and I'll get you set up with an appointment to see him this week. He specializes in minmally invasive laser spine surgery for herniated and extruding discs. Outpatient, home the same day, back to daily activities (and surfing) in less than a month. He'll help get you back into the water in no time! Same goes to anyone else on the forums that has been dealing with chronic neck or back pain!

http://deukspine.com/

-Eric

321-210-5six80

update for anyone that's interested.

I've seen three different neurosurgeons:

1. Neuro 1, Dr. Masson, Orlando. Two consultations. Recommended 2 level artificial disc replacement of both herniated discs.

2. Neuro 2, Dr. Duekmedjian, Melbourne. One consult.. Recommended a spinal fusion and discectomy.

3. Neuro 3. Dr. Razack, Orlando. Two consultations. Recommended a minimally invasive procedure called a foraminotomy to open the space where my nerve is pinched at my C6-C7 and cutting off signal to my tricep. Essentially taking a roto rooter to the nerve canal. I'm going with this procedure before I do a disc replacement. His philosophy was treat the symptom first, use the minimal procedure necessary, and not go for the disc replacement just because the MRI shows the disc herniations. With the caveat that I may still need to do that in the future.

At this point I have no pain, but I would say I've lost 75% of the strength in my right tricep. He didn't guaranteed that I will regain my muscle strength back, not even with a disc replacement, but we'll see.

I have the surgery scheduled for Feb.

If anyone would like more info on my experience so far please PM, would be pleased to discuss with you.

And thanks to Herc for working with me on some PT exercises.

Dr. Jonathan Paine in Melbourne. Listens. Advises. Saved my back.


-------------------------
Bald Brother

"Surfing is prayer of a high order, the sea a beautiful church, the wave a silent sermon"
Tom Blake

I've worked with both Masson and Razack , both good guys. My brother had good results with Razack , I plan to use him if my 3rd epidural for my lumbar disk fails. Good luck, I know these are hard choices . I know I'm tired of hurting and not being myself .

He seems to know his stuff and is highly regarded by his peers, but his admin office staff is the worst. I literally had to call half a dozen times to finally get my surgery scheduled.

that is common with many in all specialties , it is had to find good office people . Once you learn the system you learn to navigate within it , sad , but true. It just took me 3 days to get my epidural tomorrow , should have taken 5 minutes . I'm paying good money and am in the field .

You need Foundation Training.

Youtube.   Foundation Training. 

 

-------------------------

The Dude Abides.

http://www.rollerphotography.com/

^ I agree with lost sherpa..maybe check out the abdominal vacuum for muscular inbalance..arnold swears by it, might be irrelevant but worth the research.

This is the best 12 min workout to get all of us going 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI

-------------------------

www.paddlingparadise.com        

Use this at your standing desk and more

www.kumoboard.com

-------------------------

www.paddlingparadise.com        

the foundation training philosophy looks interesting. I'll definitely look into it.

My wife and I both work from home. We have had this standing desk at home and love it:

Updesk Ultra Power Up

the kumoboard looks interesting. I can balance on my kids indoboard while I'm at my standing desk with no problem, but I can see how the kumoboard would be less sketchy for many.

I've been following Foundation Training like it was the Bible for four months , It's a great book and has helped , but like the book says, if your pain doesn't go away time to step it up to medical care. I will continue to use the exercises no matter what rout I go. I just had my 3rd and final epidural today , fingers crossed that it holds. I've got a back up plan appointment with Dr Razack if it doesn't .

Just saw this thread, but I haven't read the whole thing, sorry if I'm repeating someone else. Spinal injury 9 years ago, with my feet paralyzed for 2 years. Still terrible back pain now. I got an inversion table and that worked wonders for me, still can actually surf. Also, recently started taking Gabapentin, no buzz from it, but it took away my back pain like taking a hundred Aleves. Gabapentin directly takes away nerve pain, so if a non-injured person took it they wouldn't feel any different. So to summarize: (1) Inversion Table (2) Gabapentin.

Good luck, maybe try stand-up sup surfing also?

Mcenzie method !! I have 2 bulging and a herniated nucleus in my neck and 3 bulging in my lower back..... PT showed me the Mcenzie method .... life saver!!!

-------------------------
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein

Funzy-

Can you tell me a bit more about Gabapentin- what are the side effects, have you had any, how'd you get it prescribed, etc

My neurologist prescribed it, but I'm sure any doctor can. Obviously you can google Gabapentin and get lots of info, but I'm taking it specifically for nerve pain (300mg/day) . I have had no side effects from it, although one time I forgot to take it for 48 hours, and I felt like I was getting the flu or something like that. I took 2 pills and then felt fine. The way I understand it, I'm supposed to take it for a couple of years and if I'm lucky the nerves that used to cause me pain will have calmed down. So then when I go off the Gabapentin, the nerve pain will stay away. It's not a narcotic and doesn't even give you a buzz (which I was kind of bummed about, .

I'd say it's very safe. Definitely way safer than taking opiates every day. Oh yeah, also, Kratom works pretty well, the only problem is 90% of the Kratom you can buy online will be fake, will not have the main active ingredient mitragynine.

 

Mrs. Dingpatch has been on Gabapentin from the VA for the past year. At first, she was pretty sure that she could not tell the difference but said that she did not want to find out what she would feel without it. But yep, back in November she forgot to have the script refilled/renewed and was otherwise without it for about 2 weeks. You betcha, in about 3 days she felt the difference like a Mother. She now got plenty of it and it is smooth sailing.

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

Hmmm sounds interesting. I have a pain doc appt in late Jan for a persistant issue in my lower right back (likely a sciatica thing?)

I'm hoping for an epidural and maybe that will solve it- but I might bring this up as well

Funzy/Dingpatch:

I saw my pain doc recently and got a prescription for Gabapentin. I'm curious as to how many MG/day you were prescribed, and how long it took before you noticed a difference.

I just started taking them.

Also, have you noticed any of the scarey side effects that are mentioned (depression, suicidal thoughts, unable to orgasm?!?)

I take 300mg a day. At first I wasn't sure it was working, but then after taking it for a day or two I thought my back might be feeling better. But the big difference was that I realized I wasn't thinking, "My back hurts... My back hurts.." all day long like usual. I was getting annoyed at thinking "My back hurts" every day, and that went away. So the relief was two-fold, less back pain, and less annoying thoughts.

I think side effects are different for each person. I didn't notice any. Remember, your mind is a powerful thing, so try not to fool yourself into feeling side effects that you've read about.

Mrs. Dingpatch takes 2 X 300Mg four times a day. I'm not sure about any side effects because she is a Side Effect.

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

 

After tuning in to everyones Gabby experiences, I'm convinced that this drug more than any others of the kind, are severely different for everyone. My experience with it was simply, NO f----ng way! Doble' NO-- The side effects for me were frick'in scary. It's told not to expect noticable change if I remember right, for like 3-4days after beginning dosage, and should be feeling expected relief within 7-10 or there abouts, but for me, the next morning after starting the regimen I frick'n couldn't get outta bed I was SO vertigo'd! Also think what spooked me too was that I had zero frick'in confidence emotionally that I could control the powerful reaction it had on me. And trust me, I'm an ol'schooler from the 60's and had complete control of any thing that ever went down

-Experience- Far worse too than any of the few concussions I've had, and the problem for me was,, I couldn't control or stop it for like 18 hrs or something. You know but sure enough, had to dose up again that 1st morning as Rx'ed, pretty low dose but that was all I could do, at all. By the sound of it though, simply allergic to the stuff, but then again, had the same experience with Cymbalta. Dr. diagnosed allergic to both~~ Glad some'a yall get relief from it, it takes some time though to build to a workable concentration in the bod, likewise, it'll take awhile to purge from you if you don't stay on forever. Oh well for me, I'll just live the op life and -- dig it! Zero side effects for me 'cept,, FUN !

It's peel'in out back right now, so we be,, gone-- !

best

-------------------------
ola ~

Had surgery today so thought I would give a update - before I go back to sleep.

I had a foraminotomy/laminectomy/partial discectomy on the right side C67/C7 area today. Dr. Razack performed the surgery at Dr. Phillips Hospital.

In a nutshell, I checked in to the hospital at 5:30 AM and was out by noon. Dr. Razack was able to completely decompress the impinged nerve by essentially roto-rootering the area around the nerve and removing the material compressing it. He said the nerve was completely compressed and he was able to completely decompress it.

My overall experience at Dr. PHillips hospital was top notch. The entire process was the most calm and orderly I've ever seen in a hospital. The staff explained every procedure I was going through and was extremely professional, polite, and patient. Taking the time to explain everything, from the pre-op anti-infection protocol, anesthesia, everything.

I was highly impressed with the surgical teams professionalism and bedside manner.

They kept my wife informed during every step of the process when she couldn't be there, and Dr. Razack explained the outcome to her in much detail while I was coming out of anesthesia.


Pain-wise, my neck is super stiff right now and sore around the incision area at the back of my neck. this will subside as the incision heals. But I'm not in much pain at all and am managing the stiffness with muscle relaxers and tylenol. Staying away from the narcotic pain meds as I have no need for them.


Overall I'm highly pleased and looking forward to a strong recovery.

Thanks again to all of you for your feedback, suggestions, prayers and positive vibes. I really appreciate your support!

What a coincidence -- exactly 3 years ago today! Hope all is well.

My wife seems to be dealing with the exact same thing in the exact same locations. Her neuro wants to do the "ACDF" procedure -- Anterior Cervical Discectomy with Fusion (one-level), and offered her a fast pass to get in, which very unfortunately, reduces the window of opportunity to seek out second and third opinions like you did.

I'm hoping to get her in with Dr. Razack or Mayo Clinic for a much more conservative, less invasive alternative like you found.

Best wishes to ya!

As my late wife found out after many years of surgeries, , , , when you get to the point where you can't stop crying and the pain is so bad that you can't tell if you're peeing yourself, , , , then It Is Time to get the recomended surgery!

But still, you will never again run the high hurdles!

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

good to hear of your experience there , I'm sure you will have a fine outcome .

Good to hear!

But, as Mrs. Dingpatch will tell you, , , , never, never, turn down the pain meds. If you don't need them, fine. But, but, but, if you do in the middle of the night, , , , you are screwed if ya aint got em.

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

oh they gave me plenty!

It has been just over two-months since my surgery. Physically and pain wise - I feel great. The muscular pain from the surgery and incision itself has completely gone away, and I have no tightness or pain in my neck or shoulder.

The tingling and numbness in my right arm is completely gone. I literally have no pain or any indication that something was wrong - EXCEPT:

I still have only about 20% of the strength in my right tricep, and my right upper arm is noticeably smaller and weak compared to my left.

I understand that regaining the muscle strength after that level of atrophy is a long process. Was hoping to see better progression, but I keep doing the PT and muscle isolation exercises and taking the long view.

I'm back to surfing, even to the point of surfing overhead waves in El Salvador last week. I got worked plenty - my weak lopsided pop-up isn't quite up to those conditions, but I was able to handle taking some big waves on the head.

Once again, I can't speak highly enough of the surgical team of Dr. Razack, and I'm optimistic that I'll get my strength back in time.

thanks again for all your support folks!

Glad to hear it! Keep up the hard work of PT.

-------------------------
Replace turf grass with native plants that don't need irrigation and synthetic fertilizers or chemicals that can go into our waterways and ocean

Creatine

I went through the exact same thing a couple of years ago. Started as tingling in my right hand, thought it was carpel tunnel at first. It would come and go until one day it was there to stay, unbearable pain in neck and shoulder, searing burning pain. Luckily an epi dural did it for me for now. First one lasted a year until some drunk wrestling one night! It came right back but another shot and Ive been good for a couple of years. I needed a month of PT to get some strength back. Right deltoid is gone and right arm is still smaller and weaker than the left but overall much better nowadays. I'm sure I'll need surgery one day as I had all kinds of degeneration and stenosis c5-c7. Check out liquid Osatarine, it was made to help repair muscle atrophy in older and injured people, It has done wonders for me.

-------------------------
If it’s legal will do it, if it’s not legal, we’ll figure out how to change the law-Joe Biden

thanks! will look into the osaratine!

Hey folks,

It has been about 9 months since my surgery. I'm progressing well and have gotten good strength gains in my right arm, specifically my tricep, which is the main muscle that atrophied away when I had the pinched nerve from the herniated discs. When I went in for surgery I couldn't do an overhead tricep extension with a water bottle. Now I can get about 5 reps with a 20 pound dumbell, compared to my normal left arm where I can get about 5 reps with a 30 pound dumbell. So I've gotten about 66% strength back in 9 months.

HERC810 on this forum got me started with a great customized physical therapy program, and from there I've progressed to doing light dumb bell workouts with high reps. My surfing is still not great - my unequal arm strength is a problem because I get all lopsided when duck diving waves, and even though I'm getting my strength back, my right arm is just 'slower' than my left, if that makes sense. I just can't do a fast movement with it that requires explosive strength, like popping up or doing a pushup.

I've been traveling to Michigan to work with a great DO (Doctor of Osteopathic) that was a former professional bodybuilder, and he has me on a protocol of various supplements - pregnenalone, Ibutatmoren (MK-677), fish oil, ZMA, and a few other prescription meds. PM me if you're interested in more specifics.

I've also gone on a full ketogenic diet for the last three months and have completely cut sugar, refined carbs, and fruit out of my diet. I try to keep my daily intake about 70% fat 20% protein and 10% carbs. So far I've lost about 10 pounds and am down to 165 from 175.

Once again, I appreciate all of your words of encouragement and guidance, and I hope I can be of some encouragement to some of you that may also be in a similar situation.

I am at 14 years sinse my c3-6 fusion, the muscles that atrophied because of the delay of surgery by Workmans Comp have never really come back, but the overall results are great! I have been surfing since the 3 month period after surgey and off road M.C. competition until 2010 and offroad riding to date and other than some pain from degeneration above and below the fusion there are no major problems. Stay active and upbeat!

-------------------------
Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

I'm doing much, much better now, after a couple weeks using my medical cannabis! It's all I take now, well, that and magnesium oil!

-------------------------
Life is a garden*Dig it!

Stoked to hear other success to stories and what has worked for you!

go here and buy this. It's the best stuff ever. My wife has arthritis and fibromyalgia. It's the only thing that keeps her moving.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Pie...c8c:g:1KYAAOSw~y9ZBSSh

Been a while since I've been on 2L. But wanted to share that I've made about a 90% recovery. My right arm has about 90% of the strength of my left. No pain or other issues at all. Size wise my right arm looks the same as my left arm, but not quite the same strength. For the most part not noticeable, but my duck-dives are lopsided and janky as a result. That's when I notice it the most. I really have to focus on pushing harder with my right arm. It's been at this strength level for about the last year. I workout regularly so I'm accepting that this is what the docs call "maximum medical recovery". Which I'm very pleased with.

Glad you took the steps you needed to heal . The longer you wait once you start losing strength , the worse the prognosis . Good luck and stick with yoga for core and flexibility

Six years later. Thought I would post another update. I ended up having a two level total artificial disc replacement in my neck by Dr. Masson in Orlando two years ago. So I basically have two skateboard gromments in my neck. you can see them here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/GJehZqvviYnjhhg16

The surgery went well - it was outpatient and I didn't even need a neck brace after the surgery. I don't have full mobility in my neck - but I'm definitely better off than I was before. I'm not surfing heavy waves anymore, because I need to protect my neck. But overall I'm happy with the outcome.