We can give a 2 trillion tax break to those who need it least - (2017) tax cuts

But rail against forgiving 1.6 trillion break on student debt (proposed) to those that need it most

#dotardlogic

That my friends, is socialism for the rich in action. And you dotards are truly fucking idiots under the thumb of an oligarchy...

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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

My man, you don't do socialism any favors. So keep posting.

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I :heart; Q

Point is, we could somehow afford 2 trillion to those that do not need it (remember, supply side economics has never worked, much like socialism) but cannot afford it for that most need it.

#dotardlogic

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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Thumbs up wtf!

The change is coming. As long as the GOP clings to it's current disgusting set of fake values they will bleed voters.

Can you imagine an educated society? The obese sheep bleating at a trump rally would be hard to find. Well unless you go to the confederate flag draped aged.



Edited: 02/25/2020 at 08:18 AM by Greensleeves

Private profits, but socialized losses. "Too big to fail" is code for an economy held hostage by gamblers, and you'd best pay off for them if they lose or else.

As Bernie said, socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Everybody should pay off their own student debt. Some people spent 4 years eating Ramon noodles and others drank and partied with their monies. Nobody should have to pay for somebody elses party money. What Trump should do... Suspend the interest on all student debt while he is in office. Every dime paid in goes directly to the principle. So we don't incur a trillion in more debt, the loans get paid off, a plank gets taken out of Bernies platform.

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Corporations should pay their taxes...

Forgiving SL debt would have helped the economy much more than the failed 2trillion tax cut.

At the very least, there should be an interest cap on SL's


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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

I have a friend who is a pro waitress and she is on the hook this year for $700.00. She is used to getting money back, not she is paying. It looks like the new tax rules aren't all that great. She kinda liked Trump....not anymore.

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I was right.

That's completely meaningless as to whether she paid less taxes.

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I :heart; Q

The rules changed.



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I was right.

To the OP...what does that mean to everyone who borrow tens of thousands and every month for DECADES paid it off (as painful as it was). I do not agree w/ student loan debt forgiveness. Millions, struggled and paid it off...It sucked and caused financial pain especially early in life, right out of college/Master Programs...I'll forgive student loan debt, IF those who did pay their Student Loan Debts IN FULL, regardless of the strife it caused get all their payments back as well. Can't have it both ways.

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 08:16 AM by SurferMic

Perhaps some sort of tax credit. Or perhaps tough luck.

Just because things were a certain way in the past, is not a viable argument against changes to make things better.





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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Ugg!! guess I should stay out of NSR and just do surf reports, No one forced anyone to borrow Student loans, you got them you pay them back. I work with a Cuban Immigrant who borrowed a ton of $$ to go to FIT, he is slowly becoming a legal citizen. He works M-F and has a second job on the weekends, his wife works nights at a basic call center that I do not think you even need a high school education to work at. She takes care of the kids in the day. He talks about the conditions in Cuba, no Food, no jobs, no climate control living, going to bed hungry every night. One egg and some flour was a big deal for getting through 1 day of meals. He gladly pays his student loans (and bills) because he has lived a life most will never know...Ask him about student loan foregiveness..it's called Pride and stepping up and taking care of your responsibilities that you incurred...I see it in him, he never complains...Maybe those students didn't need a smart phone w/ unlimited data and a apt with AC...He surely didn't and only sought to better his life and families through working harder than most ever would. I would love to see his reaction if you said to him "Perhaps some sort of tax credit. Or perhaps tough luck." Man, I don't know you, but I do not think you really know what tough luck in this world really is/was/can be for some. It's how you overcome it that makes you who you are, NOT...."wipe the slate clean, we are sorry you have to pay for something you choose to do".

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 10:07 AM by SurferMic

Why not? Why give 2T tax break to the people who least need it when we know SSE does not work?

Proven fact - a well educated society is one lower in crime - huge savings right there.

Plus we need Dr's. The cost of school today is not even in the same universe of what it cost even 20-30 years ago. And we are seeing results of this now. It is why NYU is now offering free tuition for GP Dr's.

Also, it would be hugely beneficial to the economy, and therefore you, to erase student debt.

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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Need to make college more affordable like it was when I went to school and when Dad went to school. That requires returning state funding to what it was back then. It would also help if loans weren't given out like candy so kids can live like they are at the Ritz when they go to state school. Administrators need a serious hair cut. They cost to much. State school was a spartan affair back in the day, even the good ones like W&M and UVA. Now Christopher Newport College is CNU and has gigantic fancy buildings and cushy dorms that cost $$$$$$$$$ to maintain. Calculus is still calculus but it costs 100X more to learn at CNU than it did at the old CNU.

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On the issue of the massive corporate tax cuts that have ballooned the debt at the apex of a growth cycle without creating proportional amount of production and jobs? Those supply-side trap chickens are coming home to roost soon. The bloated capital markets are chasing their tails right now looking for safe places to "park" their money and not investing in growth/production. Just a short time away from them stuffing the money in mattresses and tanking the economy. Government is massively in debt which reduces the available levers to counter the coming recession. Smart people pay down their debt when income is good so that they can carry a little more debt when there is a cash flow shortage. Well, GOP does exactly the opposite. It is coming.

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Easy loans distorted the market for college. Now state school is so expensive it is out of reach of the commoner without incurring unreasonable amounts of debt. I think that is part of the intent of the oligarchy. Trust fund kid gets med school paid for. Starts banking money straight out the other side, further building the wealth he started with. Poor kid has to borrow to go to med school. Can't build much wealth until the debt is paid off round about age 40. By then the good years of life are over. He probably had to put off having kids till 40 so he'll be sending them to college when he is old himself. A women in that position may not breed at all. She may be 35 or 40 by the time she pays off the debt and decide that is far too old to risk pregnancy. Merica. You are a plebe? Don't bother with higher ed unless you want to be saddled with debt till you are past your prime. Go into the mines straight out of school and shut up if you know what is good for you.

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100%

Why is the FED lowering interest rates if the economy is so good? Why are we still seeing QE? Lowering interest rates and QE is the sign of an economy in trouble.


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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

How about resetting the student loan. Reset the interest rate. Reduce everyone's' balance by say 30% or so. If you missed out in the past, that is unfortunate. Perhaps you could get some additional tax credit. It is so Trump like to say something like: If I cant get it no one can.

Epic rant there Green!

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

WTF....You ever taken a surf trip to Costa Rica? I never have, couldn't afford it, I was too busy paying off student loans....ever bought a new surfboard from a shaper or off the store rack???...I never have, I worked in a surfboard factory (H2O Glassing, Garden City SC) and got my boards by the bro deal of running other worker's boards through and not charging them my part of the process...I got lucky and my work takes me to world class surf zones in the Pacific and Caribbean for weeks at a time. I guess we will have to agree to disagree...was fun hanging out in the NSR world, wish a viable third party candidate would come out of the shadows (Gates?) but I don't feel the "Bern" (and I have hippy roots...weird). Which reminds me... Bob Weir and Wold Brothers keeping the Dead's music alive this weekend in Orlando, got some cheap tickets in the upper deck of the Carr Center..looking forward to an intimate setting with some bone shaking music.

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 10:57 AM by SurferMic

I am not sure what any of that has to do with the current situation in 2020. Again, the way things were in the past is not a good argument against improving things for the future.

Should those who do not have kids not pay school taxes? Your argument says no. But of course they should because society as a whole benefits from a well educated populace.

Finally - none of my other questions have been answered? Why did we give 2T to people who need it least, while ignoring those that need it most?




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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

How about this? All older people pitch in to stop climate change and stop running up the deficit?

Young people are getting hosed on the environment and the deficit and they can't get a break on college debt?

I'll bet the ROI on better educated people is better than the ROI on funding the military industrial complex.

Our society will be better with better educated people.

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 08:28 AM by Greensleeves

Clayton, you going to vote for the old white guy? This is turning out beautifully. Could be better than 2016, which I didn't think would be surpassed in my lifetime.

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I :heart; Q

I'm always disappointed when I hear someone who's been through a struggle and survived refuse to help those who are facing the struggle in real time.

It's a sad reactionary take. Why should we improve anything in our world?

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

If you think socialism helps out the strugglelers, you'd best review your history. Capitalism has helped more people than any other system by a large measure. Communism has caused the killing of far more people. So it has that going for it. Now, due to my capitalist ways, I'll have plenty of food if the Corona virus apocalypse comes about. I would be happy to share some with some of you if you are struggling, you included Rusty. Better for society that Darwin takes out some of these guys though.

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I :heart; Q

Nope. Capitalism is a system of plunder and exploitation. How many natives died as European capitalists spread across north America? How many Africans died after being kidnapped and forced to work for free in the South? How many South Americans killed by CIA supported right wing death squads?

Authoritarian regimes of all kinds have butchered people, but libertarian democratic socialism is the way of the future and the only hope to avoid global disaster.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

For sure Rusty. Real change requires sacrifice.

Take tspank for example. He sacrificed his reputation, intellect, reasoning skills, and any chance with a decent woman by accepting completely the doctrine of an ignorant obese racist conman from New York. Granted his cause is for the most part disgusting and will be short lived but he's all-in. Props to gramps. Zero respect but props.

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 09:44 AM by Greensleeves

Bit of a tumble there today.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Inverted Yield Curve

http://markets.businessinsider...rus-2020-2-1028933077

A stumbling economy and Trump can cheat all he wants, it won't matter one bit.

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I was right.

Feds messed up by not raising rates last year..bad move,.

Edited: 02/26/2020 at 06:18 AM by SurferMic

And the tax cuts should never have happened. The huge multinationals should have been paying for the wall and infrastructure etc... But the guys that are calling the shots want this downturn.

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Edited: 02/25/2020 at 06:27 PM by scombrid

Well said Mic. I'm going to have a look at the numbers today.

Some of Trump's White House staff became ultra wealthy by predatory foreclosure methods after the last crash, so what scombrid is saying makes perfect sense.

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I was right.

Yup - the tax cuts were an abject failure. Of course those of us who are not dotards already knew this would happen.



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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

For those of us who have income, the tax cuts were a huge success. Less so for bums, I reckon. In any case if you crave less money in your pocket, Sanders is your man. Get out and vote for him.

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I :heart; Q

They were an abject failure. LMFAO


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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Inverted yield curve. No room for quantitative easing. Exploding government deficit when the economy is leveled out. We are fucked and you are happy for a couple of crumbs thrown your way in exchange for a national socialist give away to a handful of huge mega corporations. I hope you are ready when one of the oligarchs decides to pull the plug and pushes the stock market into the supply side trap.

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You have no idea of what you are talking about. But, yes, quite happy about the extra tens of thousands of dollars thrown my way. I suppose you wouldn't?

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I :heart; Q

I am decently high up the income ladder - you are full of shit.


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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Agreed surfermic. The interest rates should not have been dropped but the twitler administration was doing everything it could to juice the economy. Powell (like Barr) asserts his independence but if a regression analysis were performed using twitler tweets and interest rate moves and I bet there is a positive correlation between twitler's whining and Powell's lowering.

Edited: 02/25/2020 at 02:02 PM by Greensleeves

Just wait to get a load of Trumpsters when they have to pay for elementary, middle and high school. See how much they hate socialism then. LOL

Will do. I don't mind there being less money in my pocket if working people could have healthcare and medicine they need, and kids could go as far in school as their ability takes them.



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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

You think that giving more of your money to the gov't will achieve that? You are sadly mistaken. If anything, things will get worse for the working people and kids. Now, things will get better for the teacher's unions and gov't bureaucrats. I'm sure they'd send you a big thank you. Whose workers are better off, ours or the Cubans? Just so you have the facts at hand before a answering, Cuban worker make between $17-30 per month. Think they'd trade away their "free" healthcare to make $17-30 an hour? I'm betting they would.

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I :heart; Q

This is the problem with you dotards, comparing Cuba to the US is absolutely horse shit. False equivalency...


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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Investments in education and healthcare pay human dividends. With democratic socialism, we ARE the government, and we can allocate resources to benefit the whole of society, rather than allow oligarchs to line their pockets while people suffer.




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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

"Nobody should have to pay for somebody elses party money." Twitler's been golfing and generally screwing the country with the money I'm giving.

To nobodyelse's credit they offered up a position that would be welcomed. Indeed twitler could point to something good he did. But he won't. The bonehead doesn't operate like that.

But Tfap "saw it in his paycheck" the week after the tax cut! LMFAO

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Zzzzzzz.. Zzzzzzz.. Braaaaaapp!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Let's bring this back to the top right along with nuke's post.

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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay