Anyone using an Imac? If a windows pc-er wanted to switch over, how hard would the transition be? (i.e. word files, router software, file and data transfer from old hard drive to new mac) Thanks for your input.

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"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Edited: 08/17/2007 at 07:41 AM by Musashi

I've used an iMac for a year now (the Intel model) and find it a completely satisfying experience. The transition was seamless. The learning curve is brief, the function of the system intuitive, and switching from a Windows-based PC no problem at all. If you take it easy at the beginning, you'll adapt quite quickly to the subtle differences between Windows and OS X. I have found the iMac to be as powerful as I need it to be, the graphics sharp and clear, the built-in sound adequate; overall, it is more stable than any computer I've owned previously. It comes with Bluetooth, 400 and 800 Firewire, and three USB ports (with two more on the keyboard). The built-in iSight camera is as good as any camera on the market.

One of the biggest draws (for me) was the sleekness of the system; compared to a typical PC setup, it's amazing (see graphic).

The suite of programs provided with the system --iLife, etc--- are integrated, and the logic of how the OS handles things is terrific. (Take a guided tour of iLife.) Anyone familiar with how computers work will adapt to it in short order.

The first thing I did was to install a copy of MS OFFICE FOR MAC, which functions exactly as it does on a PC. All previous WORD and EXCEL files transferred without problem.

I give it five (5) stars (out of five).

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 03:09 PM by tahoe

w00t bashing coming in 5...4....3...2....

LOL.

One thing to keep in mind, MS Office sucks right now on mac. It's like the last major app that hasn't been ported to Intel. MS keeps pushing it back.

I would try before you buy. Find an apple store (or a store that has Macs) and mess around with it a bit. Depending on your computing skills (or lack of) the transition can be tough. But, there's tons of apple fanboys out there that have made sites to help with the transition.

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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 08:45 AM by w00t

W00t, I respectively disagree about OFFICE FOR THE MAC. Running under Rosetta, which compensates for programs not yet ported to the Mac, anyone that can say "Office runs too slowly" is just plain anal; that, or they're just looking for something to bitch about. If there's a slowness to WORD, for instance, I can't find it.

Using a Mac is a lot more than grinding out letters and spreadsheets, and in almost all other respects (than OFFICE FOR MAC), the system flies. If and when MS ports its suite to Intel (for Mac), I doubt there'll be anything approaching the hyper-drive speeds people only think OFFICE is capable of.

Owning a computer simply to use WORD, EXCEL and POWERPOINT should not be the deciding factor when choosing a new system. My own experience is that OFFICE FOR MAC works just fine on my iMac.

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 08:58 AM by tahoe

I use both pc and mac. I use mac at work for video editing and pc at home for the same. Both are pretty much on the same level as far as ease of use.

After using a G5 and what was a very beefed up for 2005 pc, I can say that neither has an advantag eover the othe ras far as not crashing or locking up. All of our G5s, both the earlier and now the ones with intel guts, crash or lock up as much as any pc would.

Having said that, I do think the instances of pcs and macs taking hits has more do do with sloppy coding in non operating system apps than it does with eithers operating systems. Apple though being the ones doing both os and video suites in thier name should have better QC than they have of late though.

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Making it too, without love in a dream it will never come true.

Yea, there really isn't too much heavy duty CPU intensive operations in word. I've not used it so my knowledge of this just comes from my old roommate bitching about it being slow and crashing. Apple did just come out with their new office-like suite "iWork" so that may be able to fill the need.

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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Yah from Mac people
Nah from PC people

Go play with one. If you like it, buy it. If you get one, you have to get used to saying "i" in front of everything.

iAloha

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Hawai'i ain't all that

iThanks.

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"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Thanks for input guys. I got really frustrated this week when I got media software (because I want to do screen grabs of DVD's and make photo discs) and the f-------g software ran SOOO choppy I kept having to reboot. Does the photo and video software included on the imac allow for easy screen capture of video file (cell phone, dig camera and DVD?

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"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Can't answer the question about screen capture, since it's not something I've ever attempted. Best suggestion is to visit an Apple store and ask a laundry list of questions BEFORE you buy. Check out Apple's store locator. I'm sure that, if the provided software doesn't do it, there's a program out there that does. Apple's always been about the music-, video-, DVD-, and movie-making thing.

Thanks Tahoe..one more question brother, itunes music transfer between pc to mac. Howzit done? I got a huge library and I shudder to think I might have to manual redo it all. Thanks

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"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Here's an article on moving your music... ">http://dailydiy.com/2007/03/09...c-and-back/


I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to do but I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to take screen grabs using iMovie (or the software on your pc for that matter). How old is your PC? What software are you using? Have you tried windows movie maker? As a side note, Vista's included movie maker is pretty nice.

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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 12:04 PM by w00t

Nah. If you've got Firewire on both computers (Mac and PC), just connect and let them "read" each other. Otherwise, burn your iTunes Music folder AND the iTunes Library onto disk(s), then paste them in. Another way, of course, is to pick up a small external drive (WD makes a nice 160GB for less than $120 at COSTCO); use it for the transfer. Keep in mind that the music files are MP3, so they'll play on either machine. Again, the wisest thing is to visit and Apple store and pick their brains; they'll be happy to show you what's required to be done.

Meanwhile, haunt some of the message boards.

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 12:03 PM by tahoe

Locally here in Melbourne the best place to go is "Visual Dynamics", they are pure Mac, beach side on the north side of the Eau Gallie causway between South patrick and A1A.

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Dora Hates You

Visual Dynamics, Inc. Contact Info
694 E. Eau Gallie Blvd
Indian Harbour Beach, FL 32937

visdyn@mac.com
321-773-7788 voice

321-773-9604 fax

Store Hours are:

Monday - Friday 9am - 6pm Saturday 10am - 4pm

Tahoe/dingpatch: Thanks for the info. I took a ride over there today and plunked my money down. Real sweet machine: 2.4 ghz. 20". Woot: all I was trying to do was edit some video and the software I had was running so choppy I had to reboot numerous times. I have other issues with the pc also. I just felt like now was the time for change.

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"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 05:13 PM by Musashi

Good luck with the iMac (sincerely). I believe you'll find it an all-around great computing experience, different but in a unique and pleasing way. As I said, check out the many Mac forums, starting with the Discussions at MacWorld, as well as those at the Apple site itself. Just take things one step at a time.

What about Quickbooks for Mac? I have 2002 Pro on a Win2000 machine that I need to transfer. That would be my only concern. Thanks.

The new iMac will run Windows.

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Dora Hates You

So you can install Winxx on a Mac? Is it a dual boot situation or does it run it like a program? Or did you simply mean run Win programs?

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 07:40 PM by baddarryl

Theres 2 ways... virtualization (not as good) and dual boot via boot camp. Now only if Apple would extend the same open policies that Microsoft has and allow people to run OSX on non-Apple hardware.

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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

iLOL

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Our position is tax cuts for the middle class. Theirs is tax cuts for millionaires.

Put it this way:  everything that Mac did was followed by Microsoft, including windows, mouse, and Ipod.


Microsoft is the leader in business, not in development.  Not even close.


There are only two kinds of computer users:  Those who love Apples, and those who haven't tried one.

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In the battle against Takeuparms.

I won!

iYes!! All the way!!!!!

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It's not how big the wave is! It's how you surf it!

Primus sucks!
PLayalinda sucks!!!!

GO BRONCOS!!

The #1 cause of accidental death 4 yrs and younger is drowning!! 407-855-SAFE!!! infantswim.com

ubuntu runs nicely on iMacs too.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Cool because I need a new system too, and I hate Window, but have yet to find a really good desktop version of Linux. It is just not ready yet. Maybe I'll look into the Macs. What would you guys recommend for a desktop. I don't need a lot of power as I am not a gamer or into video or photo editing or anything. Thanks. PS. Sorry to hijack the thread!

You didn't hijack..we're talking about macs!

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"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

baddarry, the 20" 2.0 Ghz for $1199 will probably work for you if you expect your computing needs to remain as they are now. It's essentially the same unit as I've had for the past year ---tho' the frame is new and the processor is now Core 2--- and it's worked well for me. Talk to the pros, though. Important thing is to get a hands-on with the OS.

w00t, have you experimented much with the virtualization options on any platform?

I know VMware was a pioneer, and MS + others have added products lately. VMware seems to have gotten really expensive.

On the Macs, assuming OSX is the native host OS, whose virtualizers are available? Can they host multiple OS's (like OSX+WinXP+Linux)? How many simultaneously?
Any idea how much memory the VM uses for itself? If you need a good chunk for each OS plus the VM plus the apps, you're outta RAM pretty quick on the average machine.

What about network cards on a VM machine? i.e., does each one need a separate IP address? Is that handled well with DHCP and typical routers, or do you need static IPs for each virtual machine, or even a separate network card for each?

How much worse is the guest OS in a VM compared to running natively on the same machine?

Guess I'll have to dig for somebody's FAQ list, but any personal insights are appreciated.



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That boy's got somethin' wrong with his medulla oblongata.

An Apple advert from 1976. (Note: $666 then is about equal to $2,000 today.)





Edited: 08/17/2007 at 06:11 AM by tahoe

I've never actually done virtualization on a mac but I'm extremely familiar with it on windows.

I know the most popular tool for mac is Parallels. I think it even supports Vista's "glass" now.

If you're on windows, the best tool (imo) is Virtual PC 2007 or Virtual Server 2005 R2 SP1 (server being a server style solution whereas vpc is a desktop style solution). Both are FREE (hence why they are the best ).

But yes, VMs take a ton of ram. But often times I think people overlook CPU and hard disk. If you're going to run Vista in a VM, you're going to want to give it at least 512mb of ram. So if you've only got 1gb total, that might be a bit of a problem. Windows XP can get by with 256mb or even 128mb. OSX (you have to use hacks to do it) needs around 512mb of ram as well. So on a typical desktop I wouldn't suggest going over 2 VMs at once, IF you have ~2gb of ram or more. If you've got 1gb of ram, you can squeeze 1vm in there but no Vista or OSX. I had Server 2008 running in a VM on a box with 1gb of ram and it worked alright (not great). The main reason you don't want to go over 2 VMs is CPU and hard disk. Chances are the machine has dual cores but you're still splitting that amoung 3 OSs. And of course it still depends on what you're running in each OS. If you want to do something thats resource intensive, you'll want to cut back.

I'm not sure how exactly they do it but networking works rather well on VMs. You can select from a few options; NAT, direct and a couple others. Direct makes the VM get it's own IP and has it's own MAC address and everything. It really makes it function just as a normal PC would. Pretty cool stuff really.

I personally think using VMs as a desktop OS would suck unless you've got a real good computer. If you do want to, Linux runs decent as does win2k and XP. I'd stay away from the latest and prettiest OSs.

As I said earlier, everyone overlooks CPU and disk as being bottlenecks. Most of the waiting in modern computers is due to hard disks. When you've got 3 machines all using the same disk and inevitably causing it to seek all over the place, you're just making that problem worse.

Virtualization tech is coming along. Dell is talking about having a virtualization layer in between the OS and RAM. This would allow for OSs to run side-by-side equally instead of having one as the host and the rest as guests. AMD and Intel are constantly adding new extensions to the x86 ISA for virtualization. Now all we need is Apple to get rid of their stupid hypervisor checks.

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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Thanks for the insights. I'm heading toward 8 cores and 16 GB with a couple fast drives (semi-work related, but need faster browsing and maintenance of that ever-growing ignore list).

Naturally I'm also curious about how well the parent OS and VM distribute jobs to multiple cores.

Do you need Windoze64-bit to host multiple OS's that also have access to > 4GB?

What is Apple's "hypervisor" check?



-------------------------
That boy's got somethin' wrong with his medulla oblongata.

baddarryl-
Try Ubuntu Linux.
easiest yet

http://www.ubuntu.com/

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Apple uses a hypervisor (and subsequent OS checks) to make sure that their OS can only run on their hardware. There's no reason why OSX isn't available for generic x86 hardware as it runs fine (as long as there's drivers for your stuff).

The software does a pretty good job at distributing jobs. You can also assign certain cores to certain VMs. I think (not certain) VMware can give lots of cores to a guest but VPC/virtual server can only give up to 2 to each guest. If you're spending that much money, look into VMWare's solutions. They've got some where basically the host runs a stripped down VMware OS instead of a full blown windows. That may be better for you. It gives better performance in the guests.

At this point, Microsoft's solutions don't support 64bit guest OSes (they were supposed to in their latest release but didn't). VMware does though. But yes, you need to have windows 64bit host and guest if you want to run > 4gb of ram in the guest.


-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Easiest yet but still no OSX or windows. It is definitely getting close to being a competitor in the desktop space though.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

I was wondering what ever happened to "Lindows" (renamed Linspire to avoid a lawsuit), so I googled my way to www.linspire.com, which says "Powered by Ubuntu".

Is Linspire's $49 worth of additions and Linux pre-config was worth the price?



-------------------------
That boy's got somethin' wrong with his medulla oblongata.

Heck no.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

I have to use a Mac at work...I find that they are slow and a pain in the a$$ to use. My home pc with XP blows this mac out the door. And Safari is the worst.

Most Apple users that I know have installed either Camino (dedicated to the Mac platform) or Firefox, and have long-since left Safari alone. Both of the alternatives are much better, better, in fact, than Internet Explorer.

Gotta agree there. I've been using Firefox/ Thunderbird (on XP) for over a year now and it handles great--plus I like all the add-ons you can get like Foxy Tunes.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Edited: 08/17/2007 at 07:38 AM by Musashi

As a comment on the poll, Vista IS already into it's own. I've been using it since beta 2 and dread the rare occasion that I have to use XP.

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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Thanks for voting w00t.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

I can't believe I forgot to mention this before but (it's probably too late) you should wait til apple releases leopard (the next version of osx) in a couple months.

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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Found the poll (doh!), but will someone describe how to create a poll, and then how to post it? Following the Help instructions, I created something that looked like a poll, but found no way to upload it to the forum.

Thanks.

(Make it a separate thread, if you'd like.)

Edited: 08/17/2007 at 10:16 AM by tahoe

iMacs are dead sexy, but the price... the price kills it for me.

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The internet is serious business.

I was talking about that to someone yesterday and he explained that if you bought a dell (at comparable speed, space and software) you'd end up spending $1200 anyway--plus shipping. It is a lot to ante up at once, but for me, I haven't had a new computer in over four years, so I guess I could justify it by saying that price is spread out over the last four years. At least, that's how I'm going to explain it to my better half but whether or not that is actually going to work is..anyone's guess. I probably have a better chance of going to tables right now and seeing 8 foot sets rolling in.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

That's just not true. To prove it, I went to Dell's site and put together an Inspiron desktop with as close specs I could get. The only thing missing is the wireless which you can pick up for $20 shipped from newegg.com. And the total was... $819. The monitor and computer aren't integrated like an iMac but the computer is damn tiny. I'll keep my $300 (and my right mouse button!) thank you very much.




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Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Edited: 08/17/2007 at 11:05 AM by w00t

Tahoe: Done suh! *salutes

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Edited: 08/17/2007 at 10:21 AM by Musashi

what other "dead sexy" machine even comes close in price/value.
( and dead sexiness"

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

I don't see a point in iMacs really. If I'm gonna have a desktop, its gonna be a beast (tons of storage, CPU and RAM). If I want something small with few wires, I'll get a laptop.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

The base iMac ($1199) comes with 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 1GB memory, 250GB hard drive, 8x double-layer SuperDrive, ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory, and an 800MHz frontside bus. For an additional $150 you can upgrade to a 500GB hard drive. You can also boost your RAM to (up to) 4 GB.

How much more of a "power user" do you want (or need) to be?

One of the great things I've learned about the iMac is that its operation is not problematic. In a very real sense, it's like my Honda Accord: It simply works. Of course, unlike "power users," I'm not launching the Space Shuttle, or creating home videos on the scale of Lord of The Rings. I've got two cables, one for the keyboard, the other for power (note: I've a wireless mouse, and, with an Airport Express router, my interent connectivity ---as well as my printer--- is wireless, too).

I can create documents, spreadsheets, and presentations, keep finances organized with Quicken, manipulate graphics, create videos and slideshows, all without extensive housecleaning that requires constant monitoring for viruses, spyware, and malware. I've yet not been able to find software to accomplish what I want to do.

In the sixteen months that I've owned my iMac, I've called Tech Support just once (only to learn that the optical drive's chattering was caused by inserting a cheap CD). (To be fair, it took three trips to the Apple store to exchange the MacBook Pro I initially bought ---faulty HD out of the box for the first unit, a missing Ethernet "gizmo" for the second one, and an over-heating problem with the third. After a very friendly discussion with an extremely concerned and helpful store manager ---no arm-bending required--- I returned, at his suggestion, the MBP and bought the iMac I have now.)

A lot of geek-talk today reminds me of when I was young and way into cars. I once installed a 3-carb Edelbrook manifold in my '58 Impala, ported and relieved the engline block, put in a 3/4 Crane cam (the one that produced the sexy loping sound), a high-pressure clutch assembly, a 454 Posi-traction rear end, an Abarth exhaust system coupled to a Mickey Thompson manifold, anti-sway bars, and a Hurst floor-mounted shifter. Into a car that cost me $1700 (used), I somehow managed to "soup it up" by pouring over $3,000 additional hard-earned dollars into it. For a few weeks, it was one of the fastest cars in Long Beach, CA. . . until the night, drag racing some guy in a hot rod Lincoln, I wrapped it around a Eucalyptus tree on Cherry Avenue (in front of the cemetery just south of San Antonio Drive). The insurance company's check was for $1653 (a number I've never forgotten). Salvage from the wreck fit into an empty box: the manifold and Rochester carbs, the rearview mirror and the fuzzy dice that once hung from it, the plaque from the Pacers Car Club that had been mounted in the package tray, and the eight ball knob from the shifter, plus one still-pristine Impala emblem from the left-rear quarter panel.

Oh, and the chromed radiator cap, too.



So, you guys that are power users extrodinaire, enjoy it while you can. Sooner or later, you'll likely be driving a Honda. . . and using, if not a Mac, something very much like it.



Edited: 08/17/2007 at 11:47 AM by tahoe

LOL. Except for less money, I can throw together a better PC. And it doesn't require hours (weeks) outside in my garage busting knuckles to do it, nor expensive tools. A single philips head screwdriver is all thats needed.

My desktop:
Athlon 64 x2 4200+
2gb ram (2x1gb, eventually add more as $ permits)
1 x 150gb 10k RPM WD Raptor HD (for OS)
3 x 500gb (2 WD and 1 seagate) 7200rpm in RAID 5 for storage (eventually add more)
ATI ALL-IN-Wonder 2006 (only vid card part works, no tv capture in vista, stupid ATI)
ATI HDTV Wonder
rest is pretty normal (dvdr, etc)

I use Vista Ultimate with Media Center to record TV, etc. And yes, I use that TB of storage. I've only got a lil over 100gb free.

So yea, I don't think an iMac would fit my needs. In fact, OSX can't fill my needs due to lacking media center capabilities. I wanted to get a dual proc system but I couldn't justify the cost (to myself).

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

I guess it would be pretty hard to argue with the info you collected off of Dell, but since it's flat and I'm bored, I'm going to try anyway. It seems to me that every Dell I have bought (And it's been 5) that price you see in the window always grows a little more by the time you add shipping in there. Plus, what about after-market stuff? Yeah, you get Norton AntiVir but it's only good for 3 months or 6 months then you have to PAY to continue using the privilege of a virus-free system. Also, isn't MS charging a "User-fee" these days to continue to use a full version of office on pre-loaded software?

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"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

What AV is your mac shipping with? None.

What office suite is your Mac shipping with? None.

At least Dell gives you AV and Works Suite. But to answer your question, Office isn't included on this system. If you choose office, you pay more for it (don't remember the cost) but no, there's no "user fee". That's just FUD coming from the apple camp. I could've added Office and an AV subscription but since the iMac includes no such thing, I didn't include it here either. Notice, I did Vista Home Premium (a whole $30 upgrade) which has features more comparable to OSX (its pretty).



-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

If you're a student, don't buy the Office package. Go to JourneyEd.com and buy it at half price.


-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

But you agree w00t, in principle, that you need AV software on a pc, yes? Firewall, spyware and AV?

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Actually, no I don't. I practice what is described as "skeptical computing" (aka common sense). I also keep my computers up-to-date. I do have the vista firewall enabled but only because it's enabled by default and it hasn't bothered me and doesn't really slow down your computer. AV, on the other hand, greatly slows down your computer and in general just annoys me. And no, I don't get virii. Occasionally (once every 6 months to a year) I use Trend Micro's "house call" virus scanner (a free service) just to make sure my systems are clean and it's never found a thing.

From ARS Technica...


Oh and there's also a free virus scanner from AVG that, although not nearly the best, works OK.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Where on Earth did you hear that MS had a "user fee"? There is no such thing. When you buy the system with Office preloaded on it, you bought Office. They didn't give it to you.

I think the Norton AV annual subscription is cheap. Mac users are living in a false sense of security regarding virus threats. They are setting themselves up for a major meltdown one day. Virtually everyone with a Mac has it 100% unprotected. There have already been several unleashed but no one notices because there aren't enough Macs out there to mean anything and Apple does a good job of quashing those stories. They're out there and becoming more numerous.

Given the choice of pretty and cute iMac over an expandable and functional PC, I'll choose a PC every day. When you plug everything in the back of that iMac, it's going to have just as many wires as the PC. Well, 1 less. The iMac won't have the wire for the Webcam. But then again, you can't take it with your laptop or turn it to show stuff that's not in front of the screen.

-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

Hey everyone. Screw MS! Try this for an Office Suite. Works great. Open Office

Where on Earth did I hear about a "User Fee"? From MS. Actually, User Fee was an incorrect use of words. What I had to purchase from them after market was a registration key. I inherited a laptop from a relative. Naturally, I reformatted the drive and re-installed all the software that came with the system--EXCEPT--now I got this message about having to purchase a key to use the software. Same thing with the Norton that was included on the system disc. Only 6months included. Pay up to continue using.

However, the system I got wasn't a Dell. So maybe they have a different deal worked out with MS. In the end though, even though the laptop was free, I still spent close to $300 fixing the software and adding some memory to it. I suppose we could split hairs all day long about systems. Trust me, I've been a pc-er for 15 years and making the switch carries some trepidation. But, when I look at the situation on the whole, it reminds me of when the Playstation first came out.

Before that, I played pc games, but what's the rub with that? Oh..is your graphics card fast enough? Got enough memory? With the PS, you know the software you buy for it will run. And run correctly. No choppy frame rates, no blue screen of death. It just works. And when I think of it in that context, the imac makes sense because it will just work.

And there's no arguing with that.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Musashi, check you private messages.

So (unless I'm misunderstanding) you had an activation issue with WinXP after a reformat? Did you use the manufacturer's installation media when you reformatted? If not, that was your problem. The OEMs have specific media for their keys. You probably could've called up MS and got them to activate it still. AV doesn't last forever. The biggest part of AV cost is the updates so thats why you gotta pay for that later on.

It may "just work" but what will work? Using that same analogy, having PC over Mac is like having every game console (including PC) over a PS.

But do yourself a favor, don't let your guard down. OSX is just as insecure as Windows BUT it's not targeted nearly as much. One of these days, it will be and in a big way I'm sure as 99% of Mac users don't use safe computing practices.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

w00t is right about the activation key. Like I said, when you buy it preloaded, you own it and you don't have to pay for it ever again. You have to keep the key that was part of the disks that came with the system. When you inherited the laptop, you should have gotten the disks that came with it. That included the activation keys for the OS and Office.


-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

ok cocheech errr tahoe. Care to give us a synopsis?

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

It has something to do with video streaming, but I've no idea what. And it might be IEEE 1394, by the way. See http://www.apple.com/search/?q=IEEE+1394+

If I'm CoCheech, why would I Ignore myself?

I used to be the biggest anti mac person you could possibly be. never wanting to fork over the money for one. I was going through PC's every 2 years for 10 years straight. (Viruses after viruses even with virus software)

In 2004 I bought my first mac, it was an ibook. The transition wasn't even brief for me it was instant. No viruses no crashing nothing. I even left it on for over a month one time and it didn't even crash. It's amazing how night and day they are compared to all the problems with your average PC.

I couldn't possibly see running my website (gulfster.com) and doing everyday things on a PC. Coverting to mac was one of the best things I've ever did. It changed my life man! See for yourself how easy building websites, making movies etc. really is. Anyone should be able to do it and with macs anyone can. Anyway thats just my 2 cents. PC people will always bash but when they can see what you develop they are amazed yet quiet for some reason.

Edited: 08/17/2007 at 05:39 PM by Gulfster727

I easily build websites and make movies on my PC.

Look. They both do the same damn thing. Neither can do something the other can't. Whether it is easy or not is a product of the software. There are some great packages out there and there are some pigs.

OSX may be God's gift to operating systems. Note it's base is bsd, not an Apple invention. Just like the mouse and windows were Xerox, and the magnetic power cord was Japanese. Why doesn't Jobs put OSX out there so that it runs on PC's and let the market decide? But then again, judging by the disaster Apple had in making Safari available on a Windows platform, it's best they don't.

-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

Came across this item at MacWorld today.

I just went to Dell online and took a "stab" at a XPS 410 system that would equal the 2.4 Ghz 20" iMac. $1463.00. Ok, Ok, Ok, the Dell ships with 2GB of RAM. But it does not have Bluetooth or a camera and, the WiFi is a USB dongle that you have to plug in. And what would an IEEE 1349 "adapter" be? I know that it would be "Firewire" but what does Dell consider an "adapter"?

And, , , , w00t,

What is "AV"?

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

Edited: 08/17/2007 at 04:32 PM by dingpatch

w00t: I had a problem not with XP but with the installed Office product that was included with the Manufacturer disc. I never looked at the use state of Office prior to reformatting the drive. All I know is, I wanted to use the full version after re-install, I had to ante up for a reg key. Honestly, it's been over two years since that happened. I know I talked with someone, but I forget if it was MS or Toshiba. I just remember someone saying "A full version right out of the box?--no no..not anymore.."

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

AV = antivirus

Musashi - I dunno about your individual circumstance but that isn't what happens if you have a legit license.

Firewire does = 1394. Firewire is going the way of the dinosaurs. USB2 has pretty much killed it.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Wrong, oh spotted spawn of Satan. Read on. . .



Firewire 800, by the way, is twice as fast as Firewire 400 (tho' it uses a different cable).

Please see http://www.firewire-1394.com/what-is-firewire-800.htm for whatever else you need to learn about Firewire (IEEE 1394).

Huh? How am I wrong? Firewire IS the same thing as 1394. Are you disputing that? Or are you disputing the fact that firewire/1394 is going the way of the dinosaur? This isn't just something I'm making up. Report: FireWire doomed to niche interface status

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

To quote from the article:



Beyond "foreseeable future," I've little interest in how long something lasts. Things come, things go, but for now Firewire's faster than USB.

Look, I don't know or care about the minutiae of the geek world. I use a computer like I do a blender or a TV: Click, it's on, click, it's off, my interfacing with it much more dependent on my skills at the keyboard than knowing its RAM, throughput, disk speed, . or "ΔV at Max Q."

Man! This threads gone on 5 pages now! That has to be some kind of record! Anyway, w00t, ex, thanks for the input. I went to the shop in IHB, liked what I saw, made my mind up to switch. I promise though, if mac fails to meet my expectations, I'll post the gripe here. But if I'm happy, well...maybe I'll brag a little.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

You're happy and that's all that matters.

Oh, don't forget to start thinking different and prefix everything with "i".

So as you sit in your iRoom playing with your iMac, don't forget that you still have to go to the iStore to get that iPart for your iCar.

iAloha


-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

iLaugh. Thanks ex. Now all I need is some isurf.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Picked up the new iMac keyboard today. Full-sized, but with a very tight laptop-feel. Short, silent throw to the keys, typing requires hardly any pressure. Took about ten minutes to become comfortable with. No difference in typing speed. The low profile's nice, very stylish. One thing that'd be nice is if the keys were back-lit.

Yeah, yeah, I know: there'll never be a keyboard as good as the 8-lb IBM from twenty years ago, yada-yada.



Edited: 08/18/2007 at 01:59 PM by tahoe

Why not a Bluetooth wireless iKeyboard and iMouse? Get rid of those unsightly wires.


-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

Tahoe: Is that the same keyboard that comes with the new redesigned macs? The one I just bought?

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

yeah, it is, musashi. how long 'til they deliver your system?

Wednesday/ Thursday this coming week. This has been the month of patience and waiting. No surf, no new toys...

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

iDead sexy


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

One thing PC users can do that Mac users can't:

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Welp...got my new rig. Still learning how to use it. A little confused and I have some small problems...like my printer is recognized, but won't print. Still, it's pretty fvckin slick.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Not possible. Everything just works!

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

eh,,,HAHAAHa. iKissmyass w00t. No new transition is without it's hiccups, but it's still easier than bring on a new pc. Networking was ok. Just my printer won't print and I suspect that might be because I chose the wrong model number when I did a setup on it.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

Welp, gotta say the imac is pretty sweet. Aside from my bottom-of-the-line HP printer which had no mac support, the transition has been flawless. The way the mac does things seems a hell of a lot easier than the XP experience. It's been 15 years of windows, but maybe I am slowly seeing the light.

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

I love my mac

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Hawai'i ain't all that


Edited: 09/16/2007 at 06:33 PM by exFloridian

Funny South Park video

And for those that are so hip they hop. . .

A NY Times tech article points out that Apple failed to exploit the Vista debacle by expanding Mac sales.

Jeeze. Is that supposed to be an opinion piece? He certainly didn't cite any facts on his hit job. It sounds almost like a Mac add, including all the fallacies.

"the world of hurt that is Vista." I bet the guy's never even used vista.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

What version of Vista are you using w00t? In your opinion, is VISTA better than XP?

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

I've got Vista Business on my laptop (which is over 2yrs old now, didn't come with vista) and Vista Ultimate on my desktop/media center box. I also use it at work (an almost 3yr old desktop and a new laptop, both vista enterprise) and have no problems with any of my work stuff.

Yes, I think Vista is light years ahead of XP. People are just scared of a little change. Give it a day or 2 and even the most experienced XP user will be more efficient on Vista. The built in search has changed the way I do things. If I want to run an application, I click start and start typing the name of the program (or file) and it shows up in the list and I hit enter and BAM, it starts. MUCH faster than digging through my start menu (which has tons of stuff on all my comps). The security aspects will prevent tons of spyware for even the most ignorant users. I hate when I have to use XP for any more than a couple seconds now.

Oh and Vista is pretty

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Funny, but I do have a Bluetooth mouse. The new keyboard in the Bluetooth configurtion lacks a full number pad, and is quite truncated. Sure, I could just use the upper-row number keys, but that's so, like, 1980s .

Edited: 08/18/2007 at 05:31 PM by tahoe

There actually was a time when Apple licensed its software to clone manufacturers.  It didn't work.  People wanted the Apple logo.


Let's just face it:  Apple is cool.  They invented the Ipod, an invention so cool that ALL Mp3 players are called Ipods.

I'm getting a new IPOD next month.  I'm stoked. 

Apple may not be the biggest, but that's okay.  They're the best.



Would you rather party with ten really ugly or average girls, or go out with the hottest girl?



-------------------------
In the battle against Takeuparms.

I won!

The truth? Probably the average ones. The hottest somehow always seem to put themselves first, they're difficult to maintain, and so on. Yeah, nice to look at, and it's a rush to hear someone say "How'd a fool like him ever get a girl like that?" but generally they're more trouble than they're worth.

Yeah, you definitely have a point.

But, then, have you ever slepped with a really hot woman?

It's surreal.

-------------------------
In the battle against Takeuparms.

I won!

Tahoe, why would you buy the new keyboard? That was one of the biggest negatives of the new iMac, according to the reviews I read.

Mike, who calls non-iPods, iPods? I think you're just getting the fact that almost all MP3 players are iPods confused with that. Have you tried a zune? I like it better, mainly for the fact that it has a FM radio built in (and I got it for $105). Either way, wait til the next gen iPods come out which should be somewhat soon. They're overdue for a refresh.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

I don't know, w00t, probably because I wanted to be so bleeding cutting-edge today, that's all. I went in to check out the new system, mostly to see what the glossy screen was all about, and liked the typing experience of the keyboard. I used the curved keyboard from MS for years and never really developed an attachment for the white keyboard that came with the iMac. This one's pretty neat, that's all. Most importantly, I like it.

Gloss = glare.

I know a couple of people who bought laptops with the gloss screen. They hate it.



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Hawai'i ain't all that

You got a free "Trial" version of Office. It's like all trial software. It expires 30 days after you install it.

Remember what I said early on in this thread?



I was right. Sounds like your mind is made up. Go buy an iMac and may you be happy.

-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

When you don't normally shop for computers in that price range the price kills it.

I might make the switch is they had one with slower guts but the same packaging for $500-$1000.

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The internet is serious business.

If you view your computer as sexy, you need to turn it off and take a look at your wife/girlfriend. (or sheep, for some on this forum).

-------------------------
Our position is tax cuts for the middle class. Theirs is tax cuts for millionaires.

That was some funny sh1t, Tahoe.

Too bad you're a "conservative".

In fact, I don't think you ARE a conservative, and I can prove it:

You just posted something funny.

-------------------------
In the battle against Takeuparms.

I won!

w00t, you'll just never be satisfied. Why are you arguing numbers when "sexy" is at stake. Plus, if the name of a computer doesn't start with a lower case "i" then it just ain't cool. You are probably not even cool enough to have the new 50cent song come up when someone goes to your myspace page.



-------------------------
Our position is tax cuts for the middle class. Theirs is tax cuts for millionaires.

Correction, I'm not even cool enough to have a myspace page.


-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Mac vs PC -- Boot Camp

Didn't you guys used to make fun of PCs because they ran Windows?

-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

you really are uncool, square, unhip, and, just plain non-with-it.

-------------------------
Our position is tax cuts for the middle class. Theirs is tax cuts for millionaires.

I have one of each. I have an intel macbook pro and an hp special edition pavilion with duo core AMD.

The mac is easy to use, great for my music apps and pictures and very thin. However, my btter half is a realtor and many of the realtor websites use active x and will not operate properly on my mac. Believe me, I have tried firefox, netscape, mozilla and safari and many of her sites just wont work. Thus, the reason we have the Hp. I must say though, the HP is faster and cost less and all of her sites work great. But its bulkier and heavier.

All in all, I say having both is the best way to go. I like using them for different things.

Whatever you do, make sure if you do buy a mac, you try all the websites and aps you regularly use on it. Many websites that use active x will not operate the same with safari, firefox for mac, or mozilla for mac.

-------------------------

If you want to hit a home run, you have to swing the bat.

iFunny!!

-------------------------


Replace turf grass with native plants that don't need irrigation
and synthetic fertilizers or chemicals that can go into our
waterways and ocean

fan boy

-------------------------


Replace turf grass with native plants that don't need irrigation
and synthetic fertilizers or chemicals that can go into our
waterways and ocean

I'm using Vista Basic on my new laptop. and not liking it.
I'll give it a fair shake for a while, but will probably go back to Ubuntu.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 09/17/2007 at 11:14 AM by WG

Yes, yes, I'm a MS fanboy.

WG, what don't you like? And do you like it less than XP or just less than Ubuntu? Vista basic is kinda lame (its not pretty).

Although I suspect that there isn't much that would make you like any non-os OS.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Edited: 09/17/2007 at 11:54 AM by w00t

It's a shame that Apple's OS X won't run on a PC platform, or that MS fans stubbornly refuse to examine it on a Mac. At best, it's "Yeah, I looked at it, but it's not a real OS," or something along those lines. My own take is that a computer is a computer, and what works best for you is the right OS to use.

I'm finding Vista confusing as opposed to XP, and the video driver is flakey, I've had to re-install it twice to try and fix a recover from sleep problem.
Ubuntu video drivers have no such problem.

I do like OSX, it's os based, but not os.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Have you gotten all the windows updates? Specifically http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938979/en-us and http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938194/en-us . Those are big updates that fixed a whole bunch of problems. Also, check the OEM's site for BIOS updates. More often than not the problem with sleep is ACPI/BIOS related.

Tahoe, I looked at OSX (on my Dell laptop) and it just wasn't for me. I've also used it at school and other places a good amount. I like the availability and support that exists in regards to windows software. There's an app to do pretty much anything and everything on windows but the same can't be said for OSX. You only have your buddy Steve J to blame for OSX not being available to non-apple hardware. Michael Dell (among others) has tried and tried but Steve won't budge.

-------------------------
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.

Edited: 09/17/2007 at 02:01 PM by w00t

Actually, the problem started only after I ran the Windows updates.

A few weeks after I got the machine, I let Windows update itself, that's when it started flaking out, scrambled screen after awaking from sleep. Had to hard shutdown (yank the battery) to recover.

Reloading the ATI video driver from CD fixed it, until the next Windows update, which broke it again. I fixed it by again reloading the driver from the original disk.
Something in the Vista update is screwing up the video driver's sleep system.
I've found other references to the problem with this particular machine on the internets.

The Linux video driver that came with the Ubuntu distro worked great on install and update...

I bought the machine for Linux anyway, but it was cheaper to get it from Dell with Vista than Linux installed, so I'm playing with it as a dual boot for a while.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 09/17/2007 at 02:16 PM by WG

I've got Vista and pissed that MS didn't release a Service Pack for it yet. If it wasn't for the hassle of backing up everything and having to reload all my software I'd dump Vista and reinstall XP Pro.

BTW, I got a BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH this morning too. I never got that on XP.

Yes I have all the updates, the lastest batch came in last night. Probably caused my friggin BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH this morning. The one good thing I can say about Vista is that it's not as bad as Windows ME was.

-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

I haven't used or seen Vista much because I was using XP before I switched, but most people I know (outside of w00t) have had problems with Vista. Many are saying that the last great OS from MS was 98...

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS

DOS 6.22

-------------------------
Hawai'i ain't all that

ex: iwhat?

-------------------------
"Met my baby in a used car lot, drinking cheap wine and a throwin' rocks"-SCotS