The Fight Continues

-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

Marx/Lenin kaka has been quite profoundly discredited.
Over and over.
Stupid neo socialist/ communist "workers utopia" nonsense is profoundly lame, quite frankly.
Jolly Joey Stalin and all knowing beneficent supreme
leader Mao both murdered 10s of millions of their own country folks.
America already has a yuuuge pro commie problem.
With weird orange hair, and a russian speaking ho ho ho.....
America's amazing, priceless constitution is still the shining beacon of hope and progress on our planet. Period.
Despite herr chumpf


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It's a democratic hoax

Edited: 12/24/2019 at 05:54 PM by nukeh2o

Communism is heroin. Whole generations are lost to it and the generations that witness it will never be fooled by it. Then a younger generation gets the idea that it's new and different, the old people they hate hate it and so it must be great. By the time they're addicted, they're lost.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Or it could be that late stage capitalism and a system based on exploitation has led to massive wealth inequality which is being rejected by workers all over the world. You won't see it reported in the American media, but general strikes have paralyzed France in the past few weeks. Marx was right, capitalism creates the conditions for its demise. Liberalism slowed to down, but now we're barreling full speed toward socialism or fascist barbarism.

-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

The youth embrace a critique of capitalism, dismiss it at your own risk. Trump ain't shit compared to the rise of organized workers globally. You can keep writing bizarre nonsense, sometimes it's entertaining, but stay in your lane.


-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

The protesting lady in the video at 2:28 says, "We want to be happy, and that nobody comes to take our everyday efforts away." Sounds a lot like what the US constitution elaborates for us.

And then they advocate for a system that takes someone else's everyday efforts away.

The youth can critique capitalism all they want; they have the freedom here to do so, and they have the freedom to advocate for what they want, but they shouldn't get the impression that anyone else owes them anything.

There's a meme going around that says something like, "You can vote your way into communism, but you have to shoot your way out." Nuke's reference to Stalin and Mao exemplifies that very well.

I have no problem with workers organizing, as long as employers remain free to hire and fire and promote whomever they see fit (from the pool of eligible US citizens, to prevent abuse by outsourcing).

If a law were created that said, "Congress shall make no law regarding the organization of labor," then the free market would reach a natural equilibrium.

Rusty can stay in his lane as well. It's a one-way, one-lane dirt road thru the manure heap in a cow pasture.

"If you can't keep up with the Joneses, drag them down to your level."

It's the consolidation of wealth and power that does the damage,
regardless of the economic systems.

See how much anger and reaction you get when you support freedom from exploitation?
Joe doesn't mind organized workers as long as the capitalists always have the upper hand.
He'll ignore the fact that big business has the money to buy and run the government for their own interest, and unlimited money to convince you guys that any capitalist alternative is "Stalin, Mao, Venezuela". That simply isn't true.

But, the intention of my post is to remind you that the people are fighting back against a western supported right wing authoritarian wave throughout south america.

"It's a one-way, one-lane dirt road thru the manure heap in a cow pasture." - Eh, no, I can't give you a ride home.

-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

Edited: 12/26/2019 at 11:18 AM by RustyTruck

"The youth embrace a critique of capitalism, dismiss it at your own risk. "
Gosh that's tired and passe'.
Every generation has to re live and relearn the hard earned lessons of the previous ones, unfortunately.
Mark/Lenin bullshit has never worked successfully anywhere folks. Period.
What is amazing is both ends of the current fringes of the american political spectrum seem to embrace socialistic and commie cult of personality types.
And nihilistic dead ender types too.
"some animals are more equal than others on the animal farm"
Where have you gone George Orwellian. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you......


-------------------------
It's a democratic hoax

Edited: 12/26/2019 at 02:05 PM by nukeh2o

Uh, yeah, those burning barricades in Chile are there because authoritarian capitalism has been SO successful. You need to get clear about the fact that anarcho socialists are not Leninists\Maoists.





-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

Edited: 12/26/2019 at 02:42 PM by RustyTruck

Yepper: how BOUT that hero of the proletariat Danny Ortega huh? From Sandinista to totalitarian. Snipers on rooftops when "citizens" objected to having their "socialist benefits" cut.
"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss....."



-------------------------
It's a democratic hoax

Edited: 12/26/2019 at 04:15 PM by nukeh2o

I'll see your Ortega and raise you a Pinochet.

Where do you see yourself on that graphic, duke nukem?

-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

"Socialism always fails"

Salvador Allende ran again in the 1970 presidential election, winning a narrow victory plurality vote (near 37%). United States president Richard Nixon feared that Chile could become "another Cuba" and the US cut off most of its foreign aid to Chile. The US government believed that Allende would become closer to socialist countries, such as Cuba and the Soviet Union. They feared that Allende would push Chile into socialism, and therefore lose all of the US investments made in Chile.[14]

On 15 September 1970; before Allende took office, Richard Nixon gave the order to overthrow Allende. According to a declassified document from the NSA, the handwritten notes from Richard Helms (CIA director at the time) state: "1 in 10 chance perhaps, but save Chile!; worth spending; not concerned; no involvement of embassy; $10,000,00 available, more if necessary; full-time job--best men we have; game plan; make the economy scream; 48 hours for plan of action."

-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

-------------------------
Dora Hates You

Newt is the creator of modern partisan politics. His opinion should mean nothing.

-------------------------
I was right.

Look to CA for trends that the rest of the country will follow. Well if those areas prosper. Much of GOP America never will.

The CA leftists thing is a joke. CA brought the Jesus of Republicans to their flock, Ronnie Reagan! Of course he'd be a RINO now as the GOP has fallen into a hateful ignorant low morality mess.

California's taxes to the Federal government are double that of the next highest state. They more than pull their share.

-------------------------
I was right.

It's not anger; it's a reminder of reality. You can have three conditions of balance: 1) labor has upper hand; 2) capitalists have upper hand; 3) they are equal.

Without the capitalists' risk-taking investments of time, money, and hours (many unpaid up front), the business would simply not exist, and there would be no labor and no need for it. Laborers would be out looking for work that doesn't exist instead of complaining about the job they already have, or out looking for a free handout from a government who takes something from what some other capitalist figured out how to produce profitably.

Labor doesn't know how to run a business, and therefore have no justification to take the upper hand. Labor would run a business into the ground like idiots did with the Venezuela's oil industry and Detroit's auto industry. With co-equal status, you have a stalemate that prevents progress except when voluntary cooperation occurs, but it's a very unstable equilibrium.

Those who take risks, invent, invest their time and money to innovate deserve the upper hand in managing their creation.

As for the organization of labor, I'm fine with it, as long as no law requires the hiring of only organized labor or the requirement for an individual worker to join organized labor. A company could hire a mix of individuals and union members. Union members would get the pay and benefits their union negotiates. In fact, a company could have multiple unions. Human nature is such that underperforming workers will join the unions for protection, and the overachievers can individually negotiate their own terms. If they can't get terms they like, they can simply join the union (giving the union more power by owning more of the workforce and above-average talent) or go somewhere else. There is no reason an entity taking risks should not be able to hire and fire the talent best suited to getting a return on their investment and ensuring the entity's survival. You can pay everyone equally, but you can't make everyone equal.



I don't ignore it. I recognize that is one of the major flaws in our current implementation of capitalism. But we can make laws that prevent that kind of undue influence without undoing the entire system. Rather than rioting, a better step is electing truly-centrist, third-party candidates who are not beholden to the status quo of a major party platform.

In your utopia, the government already possesses all the power and money, but they're still run by corrupt individuals subject to all the faults of human nature. When there are multiple corporations, all power is not concentrated in one hand, as it is with your beloved state. And since no corporation can directly make a law, you can't be in violation of a corporation's "law" unless that law is codified by the state, which we all agree should represent individual voters rather than corporate donors.

The more government has control of, the more they can screw up, and their opportunities to do so should be minimized.



In your system, you couldn't give anyone a ride home. "No phones, no lights, no motor cars, not a single luxury..."

"In your utopia"

Yes Joe is right of course in that capitalists, the Government, and our laborers are not angels.

What are the motivations of each?

Capitalists? Greed perhaps. Government? Self preservation maybe. Laborers? Wages to live?

If you look at possible motivations and the possible deleterious effects on a society, the capitalists would also be a sketchy place to put the power yes?

Do the capitalists really take the risks? They use other people's money, pay the lowest wages they can, produce what those with money will purchase (rather than what people actually need), and often add insult to injury by passing the costs of environmental damage on to the public. More recently they even get away with demanding ransom from local communities in the form of tax breaks. If they can get big enough, they can even get bailouts from the public treasury if they crash the economy.

Workers can and do manage themselves quite well in co-ops, which is the basis of the "dual power" movement.
There is no utopia, it's an invention used to deflect criticism of capitalism. Check the chart again about centralization/authoritarianism. Capitalism trends toward monopoly and concentration of wealth. That's why you have homeless people, children even, in a rich country where housing stands empty and owned by far away capitalists. "Medical debt" is a a thing. About 44% of all U.S. workers qualify as "low-wage," earning a median of about $18,000 per year. In a well organized social system there would be public transportation, education, housing, and healthcare. At least they wouldn't live with constant physical needs insecurity, because that causes long term psych damage.

Sounds like they really got inside your head of you can't imagine any alternative to an inefficient system based on exploitation.

-------------------------
"Are you a Communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist."
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism."

-Protagonist Robert Jordan, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Hemmingway)

Edited: 12/27/2019 at 09:57 AM by RustyTruck