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Topic Title: The sinister nature of electric cars
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Created On: 12/03/2021 10:32 PM
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 12/03/2021 10:32 PM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 56315
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

The sinister nature of electric cars
By Jerold Levoritz
December 2, 2021

The Democrats are doing everything they can to get Americans into electric cars. However, those cars come with the risk of a serious loss of power - not just for the car, but for those who buy those cars.

We have to begin with asking, why is the governing pushing electric vehicles? And it's not just cars; it's also trucks. Why are they ignoring hybrid vehicles? If something happens to the electric guts of a properly designed hybrid car, the vehicle can limp along with its smaller gas engine until it reaches safety. What happens to a fully electric vehicle if its electrical system fails? Nothing, of course! You're stuck. All you have is a hunk of metal and plastic. And if you run out of electricity while driving, you can't just get a gallon gas can to fill the tank until you get to the nearest service station. Again, you're stuck.

The next question is, "Are electric cars cheaper than gas cars?" No, they cannot be cheaper, and that's even if you run them on renewables. Take solar energy, for example. Even if sunlight is free, the laws of thermodynamics still control.

Every time energy changes form, there is a loss factor. Sunlight impinging on solar cells changes only 14 - 47% of the energy to electricity. The forty-seven percent figure is state-of-the-art, so it is not available for everyday use.

Electricity is then stored in chemical-based car batteries (with a loss). And then chemical energy is reconverted back to electricity (with a loss) and finally to mechanical energy, where the tire rubber meets the road (with a loss). At a guess, not more than 5% of the original sun power turns the wheels of an E.V. That's awful. What this means is that it is more efficient to run a gas-powered vehicle.

You can do similar analyses with other renewables, whether wind or water power. They simply aren't efficient.

Image: Broken down Tesla outside Berlin. Photo by Ralf Roletschek

Moreover, renewables are available intermittently (when the sun shines, the wind blows, or the water flows). Because we want to drive when those power sources aren't immediately available, we will have to store excess sunlight in chemicals or in other ways, always remembering that storage and later reconversion is never free. And we will always have to maintain fossil fuel backup plants in case of renewables' failure.

This energy loss is not a secret. Smart people know about energy losses. Why, then, do so many favor a less efficient mode of transportation?

This analysis begins by recognizing that these smart people are fully aware of the above two points - namely, that fully electric vehicles are a riskier transport system compared to hybrids, and renewable power is a less efficient use of limited energy resources than gasoline.

Given this information, it is time for our conspiracy theory. By favoring a transportation system that can fail at a single point, we confer upon those in power the ability to shut down an entire civilization. And even if they don't completely shut it down, the price of electricity will be centrally controlled, allowing a chokehold on all the people all the time.

Redundancy is more expensive than efficiency, but redundancy at least leaves options. With our advanced understanding of complex systems today, no engineer would knowingly structure a system where failure at a single point makes everything inoperative for the foreseeable future. One broken gear in a clock makes it useless for its purpose, but we can buy another clock. Remaking a resilient transportation system is a herculean task.

The proper conclusion here is that society, meaning each and every one of us, should fight like hell before we allow such catastrophic vulnerabilities to be built into our future. One EMP explosion will eliminate most of the affected population within six months - and it won't be pleasant. Starvation is a particularly nasty way to end our days. And all the time we are starving to death, we'll have time to think how stupid we were to allow such things to be done to us.

Why would anyone trust the government to look after our welfare? Just don't do it. Just don't allow it! Just say no to E.V.s! Long live carburetors!

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 12/04/2021 05:46 AM
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Cole

Posts: 56293
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

That is especially stupid, even for Gary.

They (who ever they are) can shut down civilization? Fear, fear and more fear. Republicans are easier to control than a sock puppet.

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 12/04/2021 05:54 AM
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sandi

Posts: 4766
Joined Forum: 03/26/2007

FK, you need a whole team of psychiatrists.

I have an Electric Car. I love it.

The Solar Power on our roof keeps it charged.

It runs great. Feels solid on the hwy.

You're living in fear of change, dude. And everything changes.

Do us all a favor. See a doctor or two.
 12/04/2021 05:55 AM
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sandi

Posts: 4766
Joined Forum: 03/26/2007

We switched our water heater from gas to electric too.
 12/04/2021 10:19 AM
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follydude

Posts: 9095
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Just to produce a gallon of gasoline, you need 5 gallons of crude oil. Think about what it takes to explore, drill, pump and transport the crude. Think about the energy expended in the process from exploration all the way to the gas station.

Talk about energy loss.

This douche would have us all in horse drawn carriages.

 12/04/2021 11:00 AM
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Bamboo

Posts: 7018
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First off, i love my ICE engines and don't see an end of me of using gasoline/petro products in my life time...cars, boats, airplanes...all these use petro products as fuel and lubricants.

But, we should be mixing our fuels...electricity, LP, gasoline, diesel, bio-fuels...all have a place.
i had a truck that was rigged for natural gas and it was awesome. Used it in a place where getting CNG at the gas station wasn't hard. And it works great in snowy/freezing climates with minimal drama, only issue is only got about 150-175 miles out of a tank.
I'd love to have diesel Toyota hi-luxe pickup...have driven them in other countries and they are fk'ing bullet proof (ok, not literally... )

Ironically it takes 3-6 kWh to make each gallon of gas. The number varies depending on the season and the refinery.
Typical electric car efficiency: 300 Watt-hours/mile
Average EV distance on 6 kWh: 6000 watt-hours/mile / 300 Watt-hours/mile = 20 miles

So for every gallon of gasoline used a Eco EV could be drive about 20 miles.

There are other issues with EVs...but they will be worked out. All the big manufacturers are committing to EVs in the 2024-2030 time frame.

Hell, Dodge is already talking about making a 1200+ Hp halo car. That is insane. It will put any of the current Hellcat variants in the dust at the race track.

The Tesla Plaid has a hair over 1000 hp.
I've seen them at the drag strip and they are stupid easy to drive and stupid fast for a stock production car. Stock they run 9.2xx seconds every time on street tires and they don't care what the density altitude is at all. They are no shit fast.
I could teach a 12 year old to drive a Plaid and make sub 10 second 1/4 mile passes in an afternoon.

As a reference a well sorted Dodge Hellcat will run in the low 10's. a Z06 in the high 9's, and a mustang GT500 around 10.xx if they can keep it going straight.

Personally, I am looking forward to the evolution of the electrics and want to see what Dodge and the others are going to bring out....the performance numbers will be impressive.

But, the fun factor and theater of smoking tires, and screaming engines is going to be gone. That is the biggest drawback i see.

For a local family hauling car any of the current EV cars would do great, not sure i would want to cross country an EV right now.

Stay open minded.
Nobody is going to take your gasoline away, and the advent of EVs is breaking previous performance boundaries and as the tech develops it is going to be better for us as a community.


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If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WAS MUSIC - KV
 12/04/2021 11:13 AM
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Fish Killer

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Originally posted by: sandi
FK, you need a whole team of psychiatrists.
I have an Electric Car. I love it.
The Solar Power on our roof keeps it charged.
It runs great. Feels solid on the hwy.
You're living in fear of change, dude. And everything changes.
Do us all a favor. See a doctor or two.


WHAT A TOTAL STUPID FUCK YOU ACTUALLY ARE!



Most people do NOT have solar panels on their roof!



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Edited: 12/04/2021 at 11:21 AM by Fish Killer
 12/04/2021 01:47 PM
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sandi

Posts: 4766
Joined Forum: 03/26/2007

Considering my electricity is from Solar Panels, and I've never been caught in the snow, because I live in Florida...

YOU ARE A MORON.

but we know that....


I do own stock in a couple gas companies, so when the price goes up, I make money.

and you are a MORON.
 12/04/2021 02:11 PM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 56315
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

Originally posted by: sandi

Considering my electricity is from Solar Panels, and I've never been caught in the snow, because I live in Florida...



YOU ARE A MORON.



but we know that....





I do own stock in a couple gas companies, so when the price goes up, I make money.



and you are a MORON.


YO...SHITFORBRAINS!

NOT EVERYBODY LIVES IN FLORIODA...YOU STUPID FUCK!

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 12/04/2021 03:12 PM
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sandi

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learn to read moron.

i said, "I" own an electric car, and "I" love it.

i never said they are a good choice for those who live in areas that get a lot of snow.

but i would buy an electric snowmobile...

you with me, MORON?

 12/04/2021 03:14 PM
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sandi

Posts: 4766
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see a doctor, please.

soon.

DO NOT GET THE COVID VACCCINE!
 12/04/2021 05:09 PM
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follydude

Posts: 9095
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What a great post, Bamboo!

Thanks!

As for Sandi

Go for it!

I have a neighbor who got solar-powered and some turd-like guy like Gary got all douchy and was like "whaddabout you Honda suv?"

So, he got a Tesla Powerwall and 2 Teslas for he & his lady. All power solar-powered.

 12/04/2021 07:08 PM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 56315
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

Originally posted by: sandi

learn to read moron.



i said, "I" own an electric car, and "I" love it.



i never said they are a good choice for those who live in areas that get a lot of snow.



but i would buy an electric snowmobile...



you with me, MORON?


LEARN TO READ YOUR OWN SHIT!

YOU ARE BACKING ELECTRIC CARS!

PERIOD!

THAT MAKES YOU AN ASSHOLE!



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 12/04/2021 09:06 PM
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sandi

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lol
 12/05/2021 08:23 AM
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dingpatch

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1, Musk has said that if we really want to go "EV", we need to double our electric power generation capability, ASAP !!!

2. EV production causes just as much "hazard and waste" as regular autos do.

3. There are those who clearly state that the future of "recycling batteries" is going to be one, big, major, hazardous waste problem.

Win/win or loose/loose ???

And, it still cracks-me-up about the old "fuel cell thingy". Well sure, the "fuel cell" will eliminate the need for gasoline BUT, , , , just where do you think the needed "hydrocarbon" is going to come from ?? Oil wells !!!!!!
 12/05/2021 09:26 AM
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tom

Posts: 7161
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Ford and Chevy both selling some pretty sinister e-crate motors now. https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...-mach-e-gt-performance

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 12/05/2021 09:48 AM
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tom

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Was curious. Heater in our little camper is 0.75 kW, usable batt capacity of a Tesla 3 is 75kW, so the batt at full charge would run the heat about 100hrs. Idling a car engine (for heat?) uses about 1/2 gal/hr, so maybe 40 hrs on a 20 gal tank.

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 12/05/2021 11:30 AM
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HAPDigital

Posts: 15705
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Originally posted by: tom

Was curious. Heater in our little camper is 0.75 kW, usable batt capacity of a Tesla 3 is 75kW, so the batt at full charge would run the heat about 100hrs. Idling a car engine (for heat?) uses about 1/2 gal/hr, so maybe 40 hrs on a 20 gal tank.


That Tesla battery is over 1000 lbs lol
 12/05/2021 12:21 PM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 56315
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

Originally posted by: tom

Was curious. Heater in our little camper is 0.75 kW, usable batt capacity of a Tesla 3 is 75kW, so the batt at full charge would run the heat about 100hrs. Idling a car engine (for heat?) uses about 1/2 gal/hr, so maybe 40 hrs on a 20 gal tank.


How long will the heater run in a Tesla?
The cabin heater is the only meaningful variable, it can pull 6+ kw at full tilt. So if it's extremely cold and working full time, you're talking maybe 15 hours from full to empty. Nov 16, 2018

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 12/05/2021 02:22 PM
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tom

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Holy smokes, what a heater! That 6kW would typically heat 400-500 sq ft. Ya, gonna be warm.

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